This episode VIN Foundation Board Member Dr. Matt Holland is having a conversation with Ross Veterinary School SAVMA Chapter President and SAVMA Chapter President Representative-elect Jonathan Dumas.
Jonathan is candid and transparent about his unique path to veterinary school and shares a realistic view on how the veterinary profession is dealing with diversity, equality, and inclusion. Facing his steepest challenge yet, Jonathan admits that veterinary school is difficult, and this raw conversation provides insight into his touching story of perseverance and dedication. As Jonathan says, faith without work is dead.
HOST AND GUEST BIOS:
Matt Holland, DVM
Matt Holland graduated from the University of Illinois CVM class of 2017. He is a Veterinary & Pre-Vet Student Advocate for the VIN Student Team and his interests are Diversity, Equity, & Inclusion, mental wellness, environmental health, student debt, & policy. His interest in policy led him to Washington, D.C. after graduating, where he completed the AVMA/AAAS (American Association for the Advancement of Science) Congressional Fellowship in the office of Illinois Congresswoman Cheri Bustos and the AAAS Science & Technology Policy Fellowship at the USDA National Institute of Food & Agriculture. Originally from a suburb of Chicago, IL, he came to veterinary medicine as a second career. After graduating in 2007 from Drake University with a B.A. in radio and television journalism, he worked as a freelance television producer for various media outlets in Chicago and New York City including Big Ten Network, Major League Baseball Network, and the Chicago Bears. During veterinary school, he found a love for giving back to the profession, and one of his proudest achievements is serving as SAVMA President. He is thankful for the opportunity to keep giving back as a VIN Foundation board member and excited for the future of the VIN Foundation.
Jonathan Dumas
Jonathan is from Miami, Florida, and attended the University of Florida where he received a Bachelor of Science in Animal Science. He then went on to receive a dual master’s in Agricultural and Extension Education and International Agriculture and Development from Pennsylvania State University. Jonathan spent five years working in Washington, D.C. as a Program and Policy Analyst for both USDA, APHIS, Veterinary Services, and USDA, Departmental Management, Office of Human Resources Management respectively. It has been Jonathan’s lifelong dream to become a Veterinarian, and since starting Veterinary School he has developed interests in mixed animal medicine, animal nutrition, and public policy. Jonathan currently serves as the Ross University School of Veterinary Medicine SAVMA President and is the National SAVMA Chapter Presidents Representative-Elect.
LINKS AND INFORMATION:
- Ross University School of Veterinary Medicine: https://vet.rossu.edu/
- SAVMA: https://www.avma.org/membership/SAVMA
- USDA Pathways Program: https://www.usda.gov/youth/career
- USDA APHIS: https://www.aphis.usda.gov/aphis/home/
- USDA DM Office of Human Resources Management: https://www.dm.usda.gov/employ/
- Dr. Matt Holland episode: https://vinfoundation.podbean.com/e/a-haiku-a-veterinarian-and-the-coronavirus/
- VIN Foundation Vets4Vets®: https://vinfoundation.org/resources/vets4vets/
You may learn more about the VIN Foundation on the website, or join the conversation on Facebook, Instagram, or Twitter.
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TRANSCRIPT
Intro
Jordan Benshea: Welcome to the Veterinary Pulse podcast. My name is Jordan Benshea. I’m the Executive Director of the VIN Foundation. Veterinary Pulse is the heartbeat of the profession. Join us as we talk with veterinary colleagues about critical topics, from student debt to mental health, and share stories. Stories connect us as humans, as animals, as a veterinary community. This podcast is made possible through individual donors like yourself, and our technology partnership with VIN, the Veterinary Information Network. Thank you for being here.
Meet Jonathan Dumas, DVM: A Unique Path to Veterinary School
Jordan Benshea: This episode, VIN Foundation Board member, Dr. Matt Holland, is having a conversation with Ross veterinary student Jonathan Dumas. Listen in as they discuss Jonathan’s unique path to veterinary school, diversity in the profession, and how mental health plays a role. Please check the Episode Notes for Bios, links, and information mentioned. Thank you for listening.
Matt Holland, DVM: Welcome, Jon. Thanks for joining us.
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: Thank you. How’s it going, Matt?
Matt Holland, DVM: It’s going pretty well over here. I’m just outside Chicago, Illinois. Where are you?
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: I’m in Montgomery, Alabama, this evening.
Matt Holland, DVM: How did you get there?
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: I drove overnight. I had my younger sister, who is getting ready to start her junior year of college, and together with my mom, we got in the car and drove up in the middle of the night to drop her off and move in.
Matt Holland, DVM: Okay. When are you headed back to Ross?
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: I will be headed back to the island in March, March 7th, specifically. We’ll be doing the first couple of months virtual and online. Then we’ll transition back to the island followed by a 14-day quarantine. Then assuming we pass or receive negative COVID tests at day zero, day seven, and day 14, we can return to the normal population on Island and continue with our regular scheduled laboratories and classes.
Matt Holland, DVM: Okay.
Jonathan’s Journey and Experiences
Matt Holland, DVM: The listeners out there can see your bio in the Episode Notes, but would you tell me how you got to Ross and your story of how you became interested in veterinary school in the first place?
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: Yes, yes, absolutely. So, my name is Jonathan Dumas. I am a fifth semester student at Ross University School of Veterinary Medicine in the Federation of St. Kitts and Nevis. I am the current SAVMA and SGA president of Ross. I got to Ross because I heard about the institution from a few peers of mine who I went to high school and undergraduate with. With respect to my interest in veterinary medicine, I was involved in the National FFA Organization, which folks most folks know as the Future Farmers of America. I was also involved in 4H, which is a similar organization. I went to a vocational high school that had an Agriscience Academy, and within the Agriscience Academy, I took up the veterinary assistant tracks. So those three things combined really helped me hone in on my interest with respect to animal health and welfare, but I’ve always had a passion for working with animals, just like a lot of other people who are interested in going to veterinary school or have thought about veterinary school or are in veterinary school. I think the difference is though, is that having a passion for working with animals really does not translate into a veterinary degree. There are a lot of nuances and things with respect to the veterinary curriculum specifically, that are a lot different than one might assume. But it was that initial interest and that initial passion for working with animals that led me to go to veterinary school. After high school, I went to University of Florida where I majored in animal science and my track was specifically large animals, beef cattle. After undergrad, I attended the Pennsylvania State University for graduate school, where I received a dual Master’s in international agricultural development and agricultural extension education. My thesis research was on the factors that influence black and Latino high school students to pursue careers in agriculture. Following graduation, I had a job with the United States Department of Agriculture, Animal Plant Health Inspection Service, Veterinary Services as a program analyst. So, I knew I was wanting to go to vet school. I didn’t quite follow the normal trajectory, which a lot of students do, which means that I’ll go to veterinary school after undergrad, considering that I went on to grad school then went on to work for some time, but I will say that it was working for the USDA that reinspired me and really cultivated the love that I have for the field. Specifically, the turning point was learning about the effects of avian influenza that happened within North America. I really had a hands-on experience with respect to controlling the situation because, a lot of people may or may not know, USDA is really tasked with regulating and enforcing a lot of the programs that we have seen around animal health, welfare, and wellness. So, I essentially got to plan an International Conference on avian influenza, and I will tell you that I was inspired by being in a room of pretty much about all of the countries in the world having representatives if not their chief veterinary officers, but their designees, and really just talking about how to mitigate avian influenza, best practices, and really taking a world approach to solving a problem that was going on locally. It was at that point that I was like, okay, now, this is really something that I wanted to do. So, I pursued it, I had to finish up some of my prerequisite coursework. I was doing that in conjunction with working. Of course, I had to take the GRE. My goal was to start veterinary school the fall of 2019. I realized that I needed to apply the fall of 2018, and so that’s exactly what I did. I ended up at Ross, because I really enjoyed the curriculum with respect to the fact that it is what we call an accelerated program where you finish in a little less than half the time. So, we go to school three years. We’re in school year-round, three semesters a year. You have two years of preclinical work, and then a year of clinics. The other part or aspect of that was that the school is located in a different country, and so that resonated with me considering the fact that I am a first generation American. Both of my parents were born in Haiti. So, being able to go somewhere and learn, but also be enriched in a culture and learn a new set of customs, values, and norms really resonated with me. I think it’s awesome to be in a place where I can receive all that, limit my distractions, and pursue something that I love and am passionate about.
Matt Holland, DVM: Wow, yeah, that is quite the story, especially the planning an international conference where nearly every single country is represented. That sounds like a once in a lifetime experience. You and I have the nontraditional path to vet school in common. We also have USDA in common. I worked for USDA after vet school and you did before, but that is such a cool path to school. You spoke to this a little bit but I’m curious. How has your previous career experience impacted your vet school experience, but also what you think you might want to do after veterinary school?
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: The previous career experience really gave me an opportunity to witness and explore what was already out there without being a veterinarian. One of the things that I didn’t point out is that I spent about four years in the field as an animal health technician. Essentially, I was the right hand and assistant to all of the veterinary medical officers within the field for USDA. Some of the activities that they normally engage in are usually centered around regulating and enforcing a lot of the programs that the federal government has, in partnership with a lot of producers and entities. Visiting processing plants, going to livestock markets, swabbing birds and other poultry for Newcastle disease, doing tuberculosis testing and readings, bleeding cow tailheads for Brucellosis, and all these other things. It was really a way to see and experience what was out there with respect to the federal government, understanding that federal veterinarians actually don’t practice. That was really interesting and cool, especially considering the experiences that I’ve had and my education. It really allowed me to understand what is it that I enjoy about this prospective field and a skill that I want to get into? What is it that I don’t enjoy? What is it that I don’t like? I kind of went into vet school already understanding that and having a working knowledge of that. I think the other aspect of working before going to veterinary school that I found interesting was the fact that there are a lot of things discussed within the curriculum that I have experienced, have heard about, or have worked on. When you take your classes on zoonotic diseases, epidemiology, pathology, bacteriology, and things of that sort, these are things that I’ve seen and experienced. Where I’ve had hands in understanding the organizations that are responsible for vaccine distribution, vaccine protocol, and all of those things, it gave me a world example that was applicable, that I understood, and so there was an interest there for me. That drew me into the curriculum, and it caught my attention and made me want to learn more about something that I already knew about. I could also contribute to the conversation. I could contribute to the discussion. I can have conversations, discussions with my peers about my experiences. It was kind of the best of both worlds, if you will, to have had those experiences and know what the professor is talking about and be able to contribute to the conversation and discussion, and then further build on my expertise and skill set.
Matt Holland, DVM: Yes, I think it’s safe to say that you were more informed as a pre-veterinary student than the average pre-vet student.
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: Yes, that was a great way to say it.
Diversity in Veterinary Medicine
Matt Holland, DVM: Another thing, it sounds like you were more informed about than most people in our profession, veterinarians and pre-vet students alike, is diversity. So, you talked about your work in getting black and Latino people into agriculture. Can you talk a little bit about how you did that and why it was important to you?
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: I certainly can. I can tell you where it started and elaborate on that. My thesis research was influenced by the fact that I went to vocational high school, was enrolled in the Agriscience Academy and took up the veterinary assistant track. The majority of the students in my high school were either black or Latino, our carcAsian counterparts were traditionally the minority. In my graduating class of about 150 students that were in this Agriscience Academy, there was only one or two Caucasian students. One of the things that I found disturbing was the fact that out of about 150 students of my graduating class, I am probably the only one that went on to pursue some sort of formal education or employment within the field of Veterinary Medicine. Just considering the fact that this program was something that we were immersed in for four years, we were heavily involved in 4H and FFA and other ag related organizations. We attended a lot of conferences and trainings. We participated in a lot of competitions centered around our supervised agricultural experience projects. We also graduated high school with certifications as a veterinary assistant. So, for the life of me, I was really puzzled and confused as to why my classmates and peers didn’t want to pursue anything with respect to veterinary medicine. In completing the research, I found out that a lot of it is historical. There is a historical and familial context. What that means, essentially, is that so majority of the population in Miami, especially in the area that I grew up in, a lot of those students are either immigrants themselves, or have immigrated from another country, or they are first generation Americans. So, there is a historical familial context with respect to veterinary medicine and agriculture, which essentially means that I’m going to be a farmer, and for whatever reason, that context does not translate into something that is lucrative for the students or for their families. They’re oftentimes advised against pursuing a career in agriculture. Going on to undergrad, and majoring in animal science, I was literally the only black student in all of my animal science related classes, and that did not change once I got to graduate school. That was something that I consensually thought about and had questions about. I will say I’ve done some recruitment work with USDA, working with them at a number of the conferences. I’m just trying to recruit minority students into professions that they otherwise wouldn’t have gone into. But what it boils down to, for me personally, is the fact that as I look at a veterinary school, a lot of the students within my respective class, a lot of my peers who are in semesters either above me or below me, typically come from rural areas. And it seems that a lot of that recruitment that goes into recruiting students for not just veterinary school, but for pre-vet school, animal science related degrees, and agricultural related degrees, a lot of that emphasis is spent on recruiting students from rural areas. Typically, in those areas you have a homogeneous population, which is predominantly white. What’s going to have to happen to make the shift is we are going to have to change how we recruit students. We also have to take into account the historical and familial contexts associated with how students and their parents associate these degrees and these job opportunities in order to really make some changes with respect to improving our levels of diversity within agriculture, or within veterinary medicine, within veterinary school and education.
Matt Holland, DVM: It feels like this conversation, or a variation of this conversation, comes up a lot. I’m curious what your definition of diversity is?
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: When I think of diversity, I actually really think to a time and point in my life when I didn’t realize that I was black. This time and point in my life was really, really prevalent, because people always say that oh, I don’t see color, or I’m colorblind, or color doesn’t exist, but to truly grow up in a place where everyone is celebrated racially, where everyone is celebrated ethnically, and where everyone is celebrated culturally, and there are no true or unique differences is what I consider diversity. Diversity can mean a number of different things for different people, but for me, I think of diversity as a place that exists that is culturally, ethnically, and racially rich. I revert back to that, because I’ve seen pictures of myself celebrating Hispanic Heritage Month and celebrating Hanukkah and learning and doing all of these things and never realizing that I was black, or realizing that, oh, me as a Haitian American man, this is not my culture, or there are stark differences in the color of my skin. I just looked like a happy little black boy who was just excited to be a part of whatever activity and not being hindered or influenced by any outside forces.
Matt Holland, DVM: Yeah. You mentioned earlier how the profession has some room for improvement in this area. I know it’s one of the whitest professions. The percentage of Americans in the US that is white is 60%. The percentage of veterinarians in the US that are white is well over 90%. What are some things that you think schools, the profession at large, and organizations within the profession, VIN for example, what are the things that these different people who have seats at the table, what can they do?
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: I think my first thing is that they are going to have to stop treating diversity initiatives as a job. I think that’s the first thing. I think they have to really truly immerse themselves in their diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives. If they are not personally passionate about it, then they need to select people who are truly passionate about diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives. I think that’s really the first thing because one of the things that I have found our experience is that a lot of people do things to check boxes, and kind of how it works is, okay, I checked that box, time to move on. That’s how I feel diversity is being treated within the field of veterinary medicine. You know, there’s more to it than just checking a box. I’ll give you an example. I will say that right now, considering everything that is going on, the national conversation centered around the importance of Black Lives Matter, I will say that a lot of institutions are really looking at how they can increase student enrollment for minority populations, black students specifically, but there’s so much more to increasing your minority enrollment than just admitting more black students. So not too long ago, I shared with you that I am in Montgomery, Alabama, and here to drop off my youngest sister to start or continue her collegiate degree. One of the things that I tell my peers all the time is that I don’t have the luxury of being a full-time veterinary student.
Challenges and Support in Vet School
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: I grew up as the oldest in a single parent household and growing up as the oldest in a single parent household I took on a great deal of responsibility at a very, very young age, at 12 years old to be exact. So, I am a veterinary student. I am a part-time parent to my two younger sisters. I also contribute to the household because my mom needs that help, for lack of better words. Having all of that in mind, I am going to need a different set of resources and I am going to need support and support for students of color looks totally different than our Caucasian counterparts that come from homogeneous communities/areas that these institutions routinely have historically recruited students from.
Matt Holland, DVM: I came from one of those areas.
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: Right, so, you know when I say support, some of that is financial support. Some of that is resources, understanding the differences and how we are prepared. Readiness and academic rigor, that is a part of it. Support means, hey, this is something that I’ve never done before, I’m a first-generation college student, my mom didn’t go to college, my mom wasn’t born in this country. You know, my mom came to the US when she was 14. She finished high school, got a job, had me and my sisters, and just kind of made it work. Being a first-generation college student, also carrying the burden of being the oldest and having a great deal of responsibility and being the first in my immediate family to go to college, that within itself was a process and an experience. From filling out FAFSA forms and applying to college like that was something that I had to figure out for myself. So not having resources in terms of support that means a lot. For a lot of us, considering the fact that this is something that we’re going into blindly, not really knowing anyone or having anyone that could advise us, support also means having mentors. The other part of that is having a safe space to where we can talk about a lot of the issues that we face, whether they are mental, physical, and emotional. I hope that for a lot of institutions that have made it their priority to recruit and admit more students of color also understand the fact that there’s a great deal of support that goes with that, but also its appeal. What does your current student population look like? Why would I, as a student of color, want to attend your institution? What is it about your institution that will benefit me specifically? How do you market your institution? What are your current diversity, equity, and inclusion initiatives? How do you currently support the students that you already have on campus? Can you provide me with a long-term and short-term plan of how you truly attack and identify issues that have come up with respect to racism, sexism, and xenophobia, and all of those things? Well, how diverse is your staff? And your faculty? Do you have professors that actually look like me? So, there’s support there is, there is appeal, and then there is the recruitment aspect of it. It’s going to take them to realize and understand that there are parts of the country that we need to visit and go to. Everyone who wants to go to veterinary school does not live in a rural area. It’s interesting, because if you think about the landscape and how a lot of these institutions are designed, specifically, when we talk about our 1860, 1890 degree institutions, those of them which typically have the associated veterinary colleges, a lot of them are in rural areas. So why would I, as a student of color from Miami, Florida, want to move to Gainesville to go to veterinary school? What’s in it for me? What does that look like? You know, that changes my life considering the fact, again, I’m a first-generation college student, first-generation American. How does that play into my development and my progress? So, I think we’ve got to step away from ‘we need to increase numbers’, and really change the mindset and our focus and say, okay, yes, I understand we need to increase numbers, but how do we support these students to ensure that they are truly successful, because they’re going through and dealing with things that we absolutely have no working knowledge about.
Matt Holland, DVM: I hope I’m not putting you on the spot here, but imagine yourself back when you were a pre-vet student, what is something that would make a vet school more attractive, and what is something that might make a vet school less attractive?
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: I can tell you right now, having faculty and staff members of color is something that would make an institution attractive. For me personally growing up, considering that I’ve always had an interest in veterinary medicine, my involvement and my work experiences, I didn’t meet a black veterinarian until I was 21 years old. For someone who has an interest in a specific area or field, someone who’s passionate about something, sometimes it’s really hard to imagine yourself in that space if you can’t physically see someone who looks like you. What that does, for me specifically, considering my life circumstances, is that it lets me know that this is possible, this is something that I can do, it’s attainable, because I visually see someone who looks like me, I visually see someone who I can identify myself with, I visually see someone that I know who has some of the same experiences as myself in this position. It’s sort of a door opener, it’s an ah ha moment. Beyond that, it says to me, not only is this someone who can do it, who I see myself in, but then here’s an opportunity for me to form a relationship without having to carry the burden of telling someone my whole life story. Like this is someone who can understand me, without me having to divulge so much, without me having to share so much with, without me having to say so much about myself, because nine times out of 10 they’ve had a similar experience. That is so important with respect to the curriculum and how we approach it, because again, when I don’t have any working knowledge, when I only have my experiences and the things that I’ve done, sometimes you need that little push, you need that little bit of assistance, you need that help for someone who can show you things as simple and as basic as study habits and study tools and NAVLE crap. These are all things that personally I didn’t know about. I didn’t have access to, and it actually took me failing my first anatomy exam. It took me having conversations with my Caucasian peers and counterparts about them preparing for the NAVLE in their first semester of grad school to figure out Oh, I’ve got this all wrong and messed up and I’ve really got to change my outlook on how I view veterinary school but also how I approach the curriculum.
Matt Holland, DVM: If the day you started paying attention to this is day one, until today, have you seen a change in either direction, either positive or negative in how welcoming not only the veterinary schools but the profession in general is to underrepresented people.
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: Oh, you put me on the spot there, man, but I’m happy to answer this question. With respect to the profession, I have not seen a change. How I view what is going on right now is that Oh, this is the next big thing to do. This is what’s hot at the moment, so let’s give it some time. Let’s check it off of our list. Let’s say that we did it, so we don’t receive any backlash. But with respect to Ross University School of Veterinary Medicine, I can personally say that I have seen some change. I only know that because I’ve been a part of the change. I have been a driving force. I have been very, very vocal about my experiences. I have been candid and transparent about how things have made me feel as not only a black student, but a black male student. One of the things that I can definitely say is that I am fortunate to have is a listening ear from the Dean of our school, from my advisors on SAVMA, but also their compassion and empathy. I will tell you that when I initially began to have conversations with faculty and staff at Ross about a lot of the things that were going on locally in response to what transpired with the whole George Floyd incident, I was very angry. I was very upset to see things happen to a person that looks like you and for it to be glossed over. For it to take institutions weeks to respond and recognize the event, it makes you feel like less of a human.Channeling this anger, because this is something that has been going on for a while and now all of a sudden people want to respond, people want to do the right thing, people want to change their course of action, it made me feel a little bit of a ways, and the tone of my messages was not the most positive, I’ll be honest with you, but I really thank them for empathizing and being compassionate and understanding that, hey, I have a student who is reacting not to what he is seeing and witnessing, but things that have been very, very prevalent towards members of his community for a very long time. And he has a right to be upset, he has a right to be angry, he has a right to exhibit these feelings. And I am going to give him some time to express himself. But also understand that there is some work to be done and do my best to hear him and to understand and really make some headway on changes and differences. The reality is that it’s not going to happen overnight and that is why I get frustrated with the profession as a whole. That is why I get frustrated with a lot of leaders within the veterinary community, because like I said, it’s kind of like the hot thing to do. And to me, I see it as people wanting to check something off the list, but this is not just something that you check off the list. The reality is that the veterinary profession has struggled with diversity, equity, and inclusion for a very, very, very long time. Numbers don’t lie. To me, I think it’s really, really interesting that with respect to black students, like nothing has changed. With respect to black veterinarians, black veterinarians only makeup 2.1% of the entire profession, and it’s been that way for a very, very long time. So, when you think about the historical context of a lot of these issues centered around diversity, equity, and inclusion, we have to understand that it is going to take some work, and that we’re really going to need people who are truly invested in doing the work, and that it’s far less about just recruiting and accepting black students but also giving them the tools and the resources that they need in order to be successful.
Mental Health and Well-being
Matt Holland, DVM: Earlier, you mentioned needing resources in areas like physical health and mental health. Do you think there’s a connection between the imbalance in our profession when it comes to white veterinarians and minority veterinarians and mental health? Specifically, the mental health of minority veterinarians?
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: Yes, I definitely do think there is a correlation. I will say that veterinary school is the hardest thing that I’ve ever done in life, and I’ve done a lot of hard things, but veterinary school is definitely the hardest thing that I’ve ever done. I think one of the stark differences between myself and a lot of my Caucasian peers and counterparts is the fact that for some of them, they have mentors, they have resources, someone in their family is a veterinarian, if not their parents. So, they have someone that they can talk to, or someone who can shed some light on some of the difficulties that they may be having with respect to their studying. There’s also someone that probably could really answer the question for them or system with understanding the problem or the chief complaint. I think sometimes that is different for myself or students of color, because a lot of how we deal with our problems is through trial and error. It’s like, okay, this isn’t working, so let me continue to try until I find something that is. It’s a lot easier when you have a direct link or direct connection and someone to assist you with solving that problem or understanding that chief complaint with respect to the curriculum, and veterinary medicine. But you know, a lot of it is honestly just the sheer volume of work and information. The material that we are expected to master. For me, it came out of nowhere. I’ve always heard people say that veterinary school is hard, and it’s harder to get into veterinary school than it is to get into med school, but I never really understood that until I was immersed in the curriculum. It kind of caught me off guard, because it was something that I wasn’t prepared for and it took me some time to adjust to, it took me some time to wrap my head around. I really struggled with, for lack of better words, not having a personal life and school really being the sole priority. I’ll be honest with you, it still is a little bit of a struggle, but it’s something that I have been able to manage. I will say I have a lot of peers and friends and counterparts who are burnt out, and who feel like they’ve been pushed beyond their mental, physical, and emotional capacity. So, how do you move forward? How do you continue when you feel like you’re already at that breaking point, and as bad as it sounds, you just continue to push yourself? I don’t know that continuing to push yourself is the healthiest thing to do. When you consider everything that is currently going on in the world, in addition to the pandemic, it’s like I’ve got to put my head down and finish. And what does it cost you? Sometimes it costs you sleep, sometimes it costs you a peace of mind, sometimes it costs you your ability to go out for a run. It’s something that we really need to truly take a look at holistically, especially when you have professors that are encouraging you to get a great night’s sleep and eat well. And it’s just like, do you really think that getting a good night’s sleep and eating well is possible considering the sheer volume of work that I am given to master and understand? I think it has to start with our leaders within the profession and needs to start with our leaders at our respective institutions to really say, okay, mental, physical, and emotional health is really important to us, and we need to approach it differently. Until the approach is different, I don’t think anything will change.
Matt Holland, DVM: Yeah, I was just telling my therapist yesterday that probably, well, I don’t know if probably, but it could have been a good decision for me to drop out of vet school first semester, because I was cutting corners everywhere from diet to exercise to relationships, to drinking too much alcohol. I felt like I had to do all those things just to survive and to get by. If I had taken the time to eat right, exercise right, keep up my relationships, and use healthier coping mechanisms, then I would not have had time to pass. Maybe I should have, but when I say maybe I should have I mean maybe I shouldn’t have passed, but that I think is something that we’re both getting to that is underlying, not only at Illinois where I went or Ross, I think it’s education in our profession everywhere.
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: No, you are absolutely right. You are always going to have to give up something, and the greater question is what it will cost you and whether or not it’ll be a temporary or a long-term cost.
Matt Holland, DVM: And if the cost is self-care, then is it worth it?
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: If the cost is self-care, and I hear you when you say, is it worth it, it’s probably not. But then when you take into account how expensive vet school is, and when students are having these realistic conversations with themselves, they’re midway through, they’re literally at the halfway mark, they’re literally year two in, year three in, or in clinics. At this point, it’s, well, I understand what it’s costing me and I understand what I’m giving up, but I have already dug a hole for myself and the only way out is to finish.
Matt Holland, DVM: I was thinking the same exact thing. If the cost is self-care, is it worth it? Well, maybe not. But look how many loans I already took out for this, so exactly what you said earlier, just keep pushing and pushing and pushing.
Final Thoughts and Advice
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: Yeah, I can tell you that my passion for veterinary medicine has evolved. It started off being about animal health and wellness, and it has really, truly evolved to the human, when I say human the student aspect of the profession and how we train and prepare students. Then also looking at the profession holistically and job readiness. How we make advances socially with respect to a lot of things that are happening on a national level. I’ll be honest with you and say that is my motivation right now for finishing, because I need a lot of people who look like me to understand and know that it’s possible. It’s attainable. It’s doable. I need them to be able to have access to someone who has done it. I want to pour into them, and not just pour into current students of color that are in veterinary school, but I think that with respect to recruitment and introducing the profession to students of color, it needs to start a lot earlier on in life. How do I interact with adolescent views of color in the city communities? How do I get them and keep their interests within veterinary medicine? What are things that I can expose them to that will prepare them for the academic rigor of the veterinary curriculum? So, those are things that we need to look at holistically and that is my motivation for finishing, honestly. I always believe in ensuring that students after me have a far better experience than I did and have had. And that is something that I’m working to, that it’s not just students of Ross, it’s students in general. And while I’m passionate about diversity, equity, and inclusion, and assisting students of color, I really do want to be a resource to everyone, because, as we alluded to and discussed, mental, emotional, and physical health is not just something that I face as a veterinary student of color. It is something that you faced and dealt with. Holistically, there are issues that we all deal with that are closely associated just as much as we deal with issues that the other may not know exist. So, that is motivation for finishing, and if I can be a resource, if I can help someone, I’m certainly willing to do it. Completing this curriculum makes me the subject matter expert, and so, certainly looking forward to being on the other side.
Matt Holland, DVM: Yeah, I can say confidently that any student or pre-vet student who has access to you will be in good hands. It’s been a pleasure talking with you, Jon. Is there any one thing, maybe I should ask this at the beginning, because maybe people have turned it off by now, but if you had to leave people with any one thing, what would it be?
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: If I had to leave people with any one thing, it is going to sound so cliche, but it is so true, I would say that faith without work is dead. I say faith without work is dead because you can have all of the faith in the world, but if you don’t apply yourself, you will not be successful. I will say that I remind myself of that saying, time and time again, actually on every exam day, because it’s so easy to give up mad. It’s so easy to say, hey, I’ve had enough. It’s so easy to put a book down. It’s so easy to take a break and to find a distractor from your coursework and from your studies, but then I say to myself, Jonathan, if you don’t apply yourself, you can’t be successful.
Matt Holland, DVM: Yeah. Well, maybe folks won’t have to wait until the end to hear it, because I think that’s a really great name for the title of it. So, they’ll see it right off the bat. Well, thanks so much for joining early
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: It’s really been a pleasure talking with you. So, I look forward to continuing the conversation.
Matt Holland, DVM: Yeah, I’ll stay in touch.
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: Absolutely.
Matt Holland, DVM: Take care.
Jonathan Dumas, DVM: Take care. Bye.
Outro
Jordan Benshea: Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Veterinary Pulse. Please check the Episode Notes for additional information referenced in the podcast. If you enjoyed this podcast, please follow, subscribe, and share a review. We welcome feedback and hope you will tune in again. You can find out more about the VIN Foundation through our website, VINFoundation.org, and our social media channels. Thank you for being here. Be well.
