Listen in as Dr. Jim Clark takes the time to share the story of his fascinating veterinary career path. From how he started his first practice, to the importance of listening to your colleagues, and how his path took him through multi-practice ownership and teaching at UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine to his three-legged approach to success in the profession. Dr. Clark also spends the time to share his tips for veterinary colleagues who are interested in being independent practice owners, including a recommended timeline and the most important things to consider.
This episode has all the makings of how we as humans are a work in progress, and provides relatable insights into leadership, partnerships, finance, teaching, and a love for animals.
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GUEST BIO:
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA
U.C. Davis School of Veterinary Medicine
Dr. Jim Clark is an animal lover, entrepreneur, multi-practice owner, clinician, and educator. After working in general and emergency practice for more than 20 years, earning an MBA, and serving as an owner in four ER/Spec practices, Clark joined the faculty of the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine in 2010, assuming leadership of their Professional Skills curriculum. He currently provides instruction in communication, mental health, career planning, DEI, and business management skills.
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TRANSCRIPT
Intro
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: After my many years now in the profession, more than 35 as a veterinarian, what I see, Jordan, is that there are three legs to the stool to be happy and successful in most jobs in veterinary medicine. Those are of course animals and of course science, but the third one is people.
Jordan Benshea: That is veterinarian and previous VIN Foundation Board Member, Dr. Jim Clark, and this is the VIN Foundation’s Veterinary Pulse Podcast. I’m Jordan Benshea, Executive Director of the VIN Foundation. Join me as I talk with veterinary colleagues about critical topics and share stories, stories that connect us as humans, as animals, as a veterinary community. This podcast is made possible by individuals like you who donate to the VIN Foundation. Thank you. Please check the episode notes for bios, links and information mentioned. Welcome, Jim. I’m really excited to have you on the podcast.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Jordan, it’s such a pleasure to be here with you, and any chance I get to chat with you and reflect on the profession that we both care so much about is a pleasure and an honor. So thank you for the invitation.
Jordan Benshea: Oh, well, the honor is all mine because we’ve worked on so many projects together, and you’re such a force in the profession in such a positive way and doing so many great things. I just thought, what, how have we not had him on yet? We should share Jim’s story, Jim’s story is one that I think so many people would just love to hear.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: I have to jump in and say thank you for the kind words, I don’t know that they’re justified.
Jordan Benshea: They are.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: You know, each of us has an important story, and I’m happy to share mine in the hopes that some piece of that might resonate with others, and it’s a gift to me.
Jordan Benshea: Oh, wonderful.
Dr. Jim Clark’s Early Passion for Veterinary Medicine
Jordan Benshea: Well, let’s start by sharing your story or your journey rather to veterinary medicine. Were you, are you a veterinarian that had this sort of aha moment or was it sort of something you always knew when you were a kid? Or how did that passion start for you?
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Yeah, thanks, Jordan. In my case, rather than in a high, I would say it was an evolution, and like many who find veterinary medicine as a calling, it was early in my life. Though that doesn’t make it better or more important than whenever someone discovers their interest in vet med. For me, it was around 2nd or 3rd grade. In fact, I still have a report that I wrote, occupation veterinarian for 3rd grade. Looking back, Jordan, the genesis, the nidus of that interest was around animals, which shouldn’t be surprising. Animals were a very important part of my family. My grandfather was a cattle rancher, my mother showed dogs, and dogs were very much family members in the Clark household growing up. So I had a passion around animals and then even at that early age, I also recognized that I was very curious and interested in the way that the natural world works, so science. In fact, to show you my scale of nerdiness, I asked Santa Claus for not a bike, not a baseball mitt, but a microscope.
Jordan Benshea: I love it. That’s fantastic.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Those were the two pieces, Jordan, that attracted me very early on, and I feel very lucky for that because most of my friends did not have that guiding star and had to struggle a lot more with, where do I want to go? Having said that, I did have my own struggles. I worked at veterinary practices and through high school, worked in wildlife rehabilitation during high school as well. Then sort of without thinking decided, oh, I should go to UC Davis as an undergraduate because that’s the veterinary program at that time in California. So off I went and then I discovered how competitive undergraduate studies are at that level. It was very humbling, honestly, and I hit a math brick wall, Jordan, at calculus. This was required in my major, and obviously I needed to get through that. I’m grateful to a friend who remains a dear friend in my life, who basically tutored me through earning, I think it was a C grade. What I found, however, is interesting is that I have never required calculus in my veterinary career, nor do I know any veterinarian who asks us. Some of these hoops that we are forced to jump through and they continue to exist today, my heart goes out to anyone who has or is struggling with those, because often these things we’re required to do are somewhat or largely or entirely irrelevant to success practicing day to day as a veterinarian. So, thankfully, I did manage to get through that, did manage to pull my grades together. But during that course of uncertainty around whether I could get into veterinary school, I look back and I’m grateful for it, Jordan, because I explored some other areas. In my case, they were geology, the geologic timeline fascinates me, psychology, understanding or trying to understand human nature and behavior, I found fascinating, and, economics, I dabbled a little bit in as well. So those side paths ended up being interesting and I think fruitful in my life. Then circle back and confirmed that vet med really was for me, and after my many years now in the profession, more than 35 as a veterinarian, what I see, Jordan, is that there are three legs to the stool to be happy and successful in most jobs in veterinary medicine. Those are, of course, animals and, of course, science, but the third one is people. So I did find, in my case not until college, that I enjoyed working with people, and that has continued to be the case. So veterinary medicine, in my case, has been a very good fit.
Jordan Benshea: That’s wonderful. So three legs to the stool to be happy and successful in the veterinary profession. I really like that. So you said it’s animals, it’s people. What was the other thing that you said?
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: It’s science.
Jordan Benshea: Science. There you go. Yeah. I was so listening to you that I was like, wait, I think I missed that. I missed to take down that word, but the people part’s really a big one.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: It’s a huge one, and again, that’s not what initially attracted me to the field. But the reality is that we are the caretakers of these animals, we work with they’re people, of course, and they are the decision makers. So we spend a lot of our time interfacing with people, and it’s interesting, Jordan, the studies of job satisfaction and dissatisfaction among veterinarians. I’ve looked now at many of them over the years, very consistently, the same item appears near the top or at the top of both lists, and that’s working with veterinary clients. So it is both very rewarding and satisfying and maybe attracted us into the field, and yet at other times, it can feel very difficult and frustrating. So it is both of those things, I think. But to be satisfied working in the field, if you don’t enjoy working with people, it’s going to be a struggle in veterinary medicine. I used to think, well, you could go into research, and then my wonderful research colleagues at UC Davis have quickly corrected me and said, “oh, no, Jim, research today is a team sport, you are working with and leading a team, it is not a solo endeavor”. One of my former students said, “Dr. Clark, I’m struggling in our communication training, and I’m not very good at it, but I want to go into emergency medicine, and it’s not really going to matter much there”, and I thought…
Jordan Benshea: Oh, no.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Oh, no, you’ve got that very wrong my friend and colleague because you’re going to be meeting with people who are under duress and you’re not their trusted care provider, and they’ve got a serious problem going on with a beloved animal potentially, and a lot of money is involved, and communication skills become incredibly important and people skills. Yeah.
Jordan Benshea: Yeah, I am such a big believer in how critically important clear communication is. Especially to your point in those situations, in an emergency situation with a pet owner or a pet, human and the animal and being able to clearly describe the science in a way that this human will understand. Then also to be able to do it at a level of compassion that’s needed for this person feeling that they are in the midst of a traumatic event.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Absolutely.
Jordan Benshea: Those levels of communication are so vitally important, and it’s important, I mean it’s so important in everything that we do every day, with who we work with personally and professionally, all areas. It’s extremely important. I know that’s definitely a passion for you and I both as communication.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: You just hit on another huge side of that, which is who we work with because every member of the veterinary team has a really important role, and that requires the interpersonal skills and the day to day communication to accomplish greatness or survive challenges and failure together as a team. So these turn out to be really important skills. So I’m not saying I’m great at them, I am evolving and working towards improving, and hopefully that’s the journey that we’re all on in the field. As veterinarians, we take an oath towards lifelong learning, and I firmly believe that that should include not just lifelong learning in the development of our medical and surgical skills, but also lifelong learning about ourselves and about how we show up in our workplace and how we interface and treat and support our team members, that’s a big piece.
Jordan Benshea: Absolutely, and I think that you’ve so perfectly said that there about just the communication that we have, that nobody’s great at it. We’re all learning because we are all engaging with humans who are at different points in their lives with different things going on in their lives. We all have our history, our stories, and how we engage with others. All of that’s impacted, so nobody’s great. None of us are great. I think if people say that they’re great, then you might want to think about that and be, “I’m not sure”.
Challenges and Discoveries in Veterinary School
Jordan Benshea: Okay, so you’ve gone through this evolution, you’re in veterinary school. So you went to Davis undergrad, and then you went to Davis for veterinary school as well?
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Correct, yep.
Jordan Benshea: Okay, so how was your veterinary school experience at Davis?
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: It was, you know how you look back and the challenges seem smaller, and at least for me the challenges seem smaller, and the happy member memories are magnified, and I just feel really fortunate that I have a fabulous veterinary school class. We care a lot about each other, and being a part of that group was one of the high points of my life, and so very grateful for that. So that was a high, and also what I found was as a Davis undergrad, I became very outcome focused. The outcome was grades, and I needed the grades to get where I needed to go. I don’t beat myself up over that, but what I missed was instead focusing on genuine learning, long term learning and growth. So instead it became focusing on getting the grade and then moving on to the next grade. When I started vet school, I really pushed myself to try to let that go and instead be thinking more about what do I need to learn to become the veterinarian that I want to be. Of course, it’s hard because you’re not a veterinarian yet, so sometimes my judgment may have been off in what was going to be more or less important. But I really worked to let that go, and I was successful to some degree, but vet school was and is hard. It is a fire hose of information. During my years in vet school, 1984 to 1988, now a very long time ago, and now I look at how medical knowledge has grown and developed, and that’s what’s facing today’s veterinary students, which is a much bigger challenge. On the other hand, the accessibility of that information with the Internet and our smartphone in our pocket and all of that has improved a lot. What I have noticed is, I don’t think our veterinary educational approach has kept up with that difference. I still see a lot of focus on memorization of what I would consider to be rather trivial facts which could easily be looked up but are being used to assess, does this colleague really understand or know the material? That’s unfortunate, but I believe there are some better ways. But I think we’re trying to work towards that.
Jordan Benshea: It seems that there’s, I’m noticing a pattern based or a trend of your feelings about calculus, and your feelings…
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: There you go.
Jordan Benshea: But how often through life, there’s things that we’re like, how are we ever going to use this again? How relevant is this really going to be? That’s a good distinction, I think, you’re making between memorizing for facts versus learning for life.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: I think at the same time, what sets a veterinarian apart, a really good veterinarian, is not just knowing what to do, but understanding why this may be beneficial and why that might not be a good idea for this particular patient and client. In order to do that you do have to understand the underlying mechanisms, and, gosh, I work with fabulous faculty colleagues at Davis who their depth of that understanding is astounding. I honor them, and I recognize the importance of that. I think what we are trying to work towards would be ways to convey that that doesn’t involve the minutiae, but help our under our clients with an understanding of maybe the bigger picture concepts that are going to help them be successful in decision making throughout their entire career.
Jordan Benshea: Absolutely. The decision making aspect of that is so critically important…
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Yeah.
Jordan Benshea: And being able to have those skills are extremely important. Okay, so you went to UC Davis undergrad and veterinary school. Lots of highlights as we look back on it.
First Steps in the Veterinary Profession
Jordan Benshea: Then you get out of veterinary school and what’s your first job?
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Yeah, so I should jump back a moment because there’s a trend that I see going on that I was a part of it. It continues to this day, Jordan, which you said, as an undergrad I was interested in wildlife and zoos. I worked at a nearby zoo, Sacramento Zoo, and spent countless hours there during my undergraduate education. When I started veterinary school I thought, “Jim Clark is going to be a zoo or a wildlife vet”.
Jordan Benshea: Those are music to so many pre veterinary student years, right?
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Right, and every year we admit a very large subset of students with that passion, which I shared. Then over the course of veterinary school, I continued to evolve and I recognized that there were some aspects of how zoo animals were cared and what zoo animals were even in zoo collections, that ethically I recognized issues with. Then I also recognized that finding a job in Zoo Med, a paying job to be able to support maybe not just yourself but your family, is exceedingly challenging. So the beauty of vet med is that there’s so many different directions that you could go, that I think hopefully could be satisfying. So for me, as I shared already, I had this passion around small animals. So that made that transition rather easy, and to this day I am a dog nut, Jordan, I think you know this about me. That…
Jordan Benshea: I do know this, yeah.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: If I see a dog, I immediately want to say hello and learn about them. So that has, I’m very grateful for that.
Transition to Small Animal Practice
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: So during vet school, then shifted from my career focus being zoo and wildlife to instead saying I’m more interested in small animal. One of those options that also attracted me into small animal was the potential to own my own business someday, and we’ll talk more about that, I think.
Jordan Benshea: Absolutely.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: That pushed me in that direction, but that interest remained alive, and I’ve kinda woven that into my career on the side. I’m really grateful as a veterinarian to have had that opportunity. So we don’t have to, sometimes I feel my students have this impression that these are either or decisions. Either I’m going to be a small animal vet or I’m going to work with wildlife or exotic animals or even zoo animals. It doesn’t have to be that way in vet med. We’re very lucky that way. Same thing around surgery. Either I have to become a board certified surgeon to really be engaged in surgery or just a general practitioner, and I hate that descriptor because general practice is tremendously challenging and rewarding and all of that. On an equal basis with any specialty, I would argue, they’re just different. But you can become a general practitioner with a passion for surgery and do an awful lot of really cool fun surgeries. So these are not either or’s. So then for me, through vet school, became to focus on realizing I’m going to at least begin my career working in small animal practice, but I’ll look for ways to keep wildlife and zoo med on the side. So that’s where I was when I graduated in 1988.
Jordan Benshea: So how did you go from graduating veterinary school to owning your first practice?
Starting and Growing an Emergency Practice
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Well, let’s see. So when I graduated, it was a period for the profession where the job market was relatively robust, nowhere near where it is today, but it was relatively robust. I was single, I was willing to go kinda anywhere in California, and I thought, the more I interview, the more I’m going to learn about different opportunities and be able to compare them, and I’ll create connections with an immediate employer or just friends or colleagues or future employers. So I made the most of that, and I had 12 job offers.
Jordan Benshea: Wow.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: One of those was for an internship, which I researched and learned it was a complete use and abuse opportunity. So thank goodness I didn’t take that job. Instead, I looked at these other opportunities, and it wasn’t that I was so great, it’s I was willing to go anywhere.
Jordan Benshea: Well, but you also gave yourself this opportunity to create multiple.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Well, thank you. So I was open to that, and a wonderful mentor of mine, Dr. Jeff Kelley-Day, who remains a dear friend in my life, he owned a very successful practice in Eureka, California. Eureka is a semi remote, seaside community, and he had a thriving business and practice there. I worked with him over several periods as a prevet, and he really impressed upon me the importance of selecting a first job where I would be in the best learning environment, and he said, “Jim, it’s not about the money, you want to be in the place where you’re going to develop the best habits of practicing medicine and surgery because those are going to carry with you through the rest of your career”. He was absolutely correct, I continue to feel that that’s the case today. So I accepted the second lowest salary of all of the offers to join a Five Doctor, which at that time was a very large practice in Napa, California, which many of our listeners may recognize from, one, it was a beautiful place to get to live as a new grad, and what a great decision that was. I had two fabulous bosses who were, really demonstrated that passion for lifelong learning, who were very good veterinarians, who were very good surgeons, and immediately, one day a week, it was gym surgery day, and I was responsible for whatever the surgery was, including orthopedic repairs, etcetera.
Jordan Benshea: Wow.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: But my bosses were there to support me and back me up, and each one of those doctors that I worked with had their focal area of interest. One reason I selected that practice was that they had invested in ultrasound, which at that time, we take it for granted now, Jordan, but at that time very few practices had an ultrasound. They’d invested in a used machine that was the size of a refrigerator, and it had as many buttons on it as flying probably a Cessna airplane. The image was a fuzzy TV screen, but it was ultrasound. So that gave me the opportunity to pursue that interest as a new grad, I’m really grateful for that. So worked with them, and then they stuck the new kid, well, to be fair, every doctor did some emergency, but the new kid did more, and so I carried a pager. At that time, Jordan, only two kinds of people carried pagers, doctors and drug dealers. So I proudly carried that pager until I realized, oh, that was a tether to work, and so I responded by myself to after hours emergencies. One weekend, in addition to seeing all the Saturday office calls solo, I saw 30 emergencies by myself with no tech backup. So it was rather a shocking workload as a new grad, and if I’m really honest about how I felt about it, Jordan, the word, what’s the right word? Terrified comes to mind, and I felt very ill equipped and uncertain. You know me well enough to know I want to be in control and on top of things.
Jordan Benshea: You are very prepared, always. You are, in a good way.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: What I found, thankfully, was that my UCD education was a wonderful preparation. Even if I hadn’t seen something, it helped me understand how to think on my feet, so I learned an absolute ton. In my opinion, that is not the right way to learn how to become an emergency clinician, but it does build confidence. There is a rapid learning curve, and so I went from being fearful of emergency to actually finding, within a year and a half, that I actually really enjoyed emergency. So that eventually led to my falling in love with emergency critical care medicine, which then I did exclusively for 25 in my practice and really enjoyed that niche within vet med. So to go back to your question about sort of the past. So join this group practice, knew that I had an interest in business, but again, my wonderful mentor had really indicated, well, learn medicine and surgery and then when you’re ready, kind of transition into business. That’s something I continue to share with my students today, which is that, really, if there is so much to learn as a newer recent graduate that trying to distract yourself with learning what you need to know about business and practice management and all of those responsibilities, I think would inevitably pull you away from job one, which is becoming a skilled veterinarian. So I focused on that. I moved then from that practice in Napa, I moved down to Southern California, San Diego, and joined another large group pratice, multiple doctors including a wonderful board certified surgeon, Dr. Nancy Hampel, who I will always be grateful to, who was tremendously talented and also a gracious and supportive mentor. Boy did we have a lot of fun in that practice, and we saw a huge caseload, the learning curve continued. Then following that, that led to my recognition that there was opportunity in the eastern part of San Diego to open an emergency practice. At that time in San Diego, there was one shareholder owned emergency practice in central San Diego, and they’d been around a long time. They had a lot of shareholders, and I think everyone assumed, well, nobody would go up against them. But a dear friend of mine, Dr. Ira Feinzwag, who was a friend of mine through vet school, he was a bit ahead of me. He and I then founded our first emergency practice together in the East County of San Diego, and I remember a couple of the members of the Board of Directors of that centrally owned shareholder emergency practice met with us and said, “we are going to squash you like a bug”. So it was a scary time, and Ira and I were working on a shoestring budget. We pulled it together, and we opened this practice and we really focused on serving, supporting, backing up our referring veterinarians. Not replacing them, but caring for their clients and patients after hours initially, and, gosh. I really enjoyed getting to know the veterinarians throughout that community. Veterinarians, Jordan, you know this because you work in this field, we’re so lucky. There are so many fabulous veterinarians who I’ve met. So getting to know those colleagues and then they’re being willing to put their trust in us to care for their clients and patients after hours, that’s what we focused on. Low and behold, despite our country being in a recession at that time, the practice gained traction and support, and we grew from there. Then soon we added specialty services, got to work with amazing specialists, and went 24/7, which was a very wise use of the investment, in the capital investment in a modern facility and equipment and all of that. Then that fostered that learning environment of trying to be on the front edge of quality medicine, and so much credit goes to the team that we had.
Building a Successful Veterinary Team
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Oh my gosh, did we have fabulous team members. I mean from client service to technical to management leadership to housekeeping, in every one of those realms, we just had a great team of people. My partner did a fabulous job, he was more focused on and more savvy about the business and the numbers, and I got to focus more on kind of growing that team, and on teaching and learning within the practice and building relationships with our referring veterinary community, and so that practice flourished. Also I have to say, luck is a real thing. We were lucky, Jordan, in that, at that point in time, and we may look back on this as the golden age of growth of emergency specialty medicine, that was a time when many family veterinarians realized we need some work life balance. Where that first became sort of even a topic for consideration in our profession, and they recognize that when I go in by myself as I did in my first job at Napa, and I’m working by myself in a hospital that’s not specifically designed to do this, I am probably not providing the highest and best quality care for my patients and to my clients. So that evolution then led more and more veterinarians to recognize, yes, let’s refer to a dedicated facility. By opening in this eastern area of San Diego, we made that a lot more convenient for their clients. Then also the importance of recognizing that while we get to do lots of things as veterinarians, specialists are such a boom to the profession, to have somebody who has dedicated themselves in a specific area. So the timing was great and so that contributed to the growth and success of my first of 4 practices I’ve been involved in.
Jordan Benshea: Wow, what a great story, and really kudos to you and your partner, it is really scary to start a new business. My parents were entrepreneurs, and, gosh, it is a full time morning, night, everyday situation. To have that central San Diego Board of Directors say to you, it’s almost a movie scene to hear them say, like, “we will squash you”. Kudos to you two for just still sticking with it and turning that into a success story. So I hear you say luck, but I also am hearing the hard work and effort that you put into the business, but then also the dedication that you put into building your team and in knowing you and knowing how good you are at making people feel seen and heard and appreciated. I can imagine that your team felt so much positivity there and really enjoyed working with you guys, and that fostered I think what you’re calling the luck. But I think part of that as well, which is that it doesn’t just come, and so that’s a lot of consistent effort and time and awareness and compassion and strategy and fiscal awareness and all of that together, to create a fight.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Well, Jordan, I have to jump in because you’re making me sound a lot more savvy and talented and knowledgeable than I was. Looking back, Jordan, and I share this as I teach business in the veterinary field, I am grateful that I did not know what I did not know when I started my first practice because it’s a lot. Now I was 5 years out and that again was strategic on my part. At that point, of course, I had lots more to learn about medicine and surgery, but I felt like I had a good foundation. Then also, I had a great partner. Then also, I had a great team. Then that medical team, when it came to the business, that also was a team effort. Great accountant who I still work with today after, gosh, we worked together for more than 30 years. I had a fabulous attorney, Joan Walsh, in San Diego who really helped to guide us, and then learning from other business owners. Again, my business mentor, Dr. Kelly-Day, who had set such a great example of really focusing on the people side of practice, the clients whom we serve and the members of the team. Now you mentioned appreciation, and you gave me a very kind compliment, and I need to tell you a story. So I thought early on that I was expressing a lot of appreciation to our team, but one thing about me, which you probably also know, is that I’m kind of an analytical guy. So I want to see, let’s measure this, and that was reinforced in my MBA. Until you measure something, it really is hard to manage it. So thankfully, early on, I decided let’s do an anonymous survey of our staff to see how they are feeling and doing and what is working well and what could we do that would be better yet. So we put out the survey, and I was pretty confident that they were going to feel very appreciated because there was not a shift, Jordan, that I didn’t end at 14 hours that I would say, “gosh, thank you, everybody, y’all did such a great job”. I don’t know how many pizzas I bought for the team and said, “yeah, thank you, we’re all working so hard”, and I thought, “oh, I’m good at this”, until I measured it. Then I realized, our team members, they don’t feel very appreciated, and I was shocked. So I dug a little bit deeper in that. I did some reading about it, I talked to team members, and what I realized is that these blanket expressions of appreciation, there’s nothing wrong with them and I would say they have a small net positive. But what they don’t do is they don’t really resonate with an individual to help them feel seen and heard and valued. To do that, what we need to do is talk to that person individually, and before we do that, we need to become an astute observer and be able to recognize what is it that they’re doing specifically that is consistent with our vision for this practice and what we want to achieve. Then when we meet with that individual and we share that, that then becomes very impactful. If we combine that with a little nicety, like, we developed a system of a little kind of performance, I don’t know what, we didn’t call it a bonus, it was a recognition that then our team members could individually decide how they wanted to use that. Whether that was going to a movie with our partner or a Starbucks card or a variety of those things, which also was helpful because we let them individualize the tangible reward that was of value to them. But the most important reward was hearing from a person in a leadership role, and by the way, for our listeners, that does not mean just the practice owner. That does not mean the executives in a large corporate group.
Leadership in Veterinary Practice
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: If you are a veterinarian and you’re working in a practice and you’re working with anyone else on a team, hello, you’re the leader. So they’re expressing that appreciation as a leader. That is what makes a difference, and by being timely and specific and authentic, that then moved the needle and benefited, I think, the culture of our practice and maybe the example that we set that was carried on by others.
Jordan Benshea: That’s wonderful, and that’s a great example of thinking you had it all in the bag.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Yep.
Jordan Benshea: I could write this case study myself, and then in an opportunity for learning, but then pivoting from it and learning deeper.
Expanding Practices and Partnerships
Jordan Benshea: So you own that one practice together, did the two of you go and then own 4 more or 3 more, or how did that work?
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: My partner really had his roots in the San Diego community, and I had grown up and had family and dear friends in the San Francisco Bay Area. So really, with my family and my wife was very open to that transition and move, and, we have two amazing daughters, and so we thought we would ultimately like to relocate to the Bay Area. So through that, that led to my having to give up my ownership stake in the San Diego hospital, which was really like leaving a family, and that was very difficult. But prior to that, I had partnered with one of my vet school classmates, another great partner, Dr. Steve Dana. So he is an amazing clinician, always had this passion for medicine and emergency critical care, a veterinarian who really has embraced lifelong learning concepts.
Relocating and New Ventures
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: So he was actually living in the northern San Francisco Bay Area where I hoped to relocate, and we reconnected at a classmate’s wedding, I think it was, and started talking. We recognized that we felt there was an opportunity for really raising the level of emergency care in this area. So we partnered up, with my San Diego partner understanding that I was going to be involved in this other endeavor. Then we tried to buy that practice in that area, and the owner of the practice at that time was a remote owner who wasn’t really involved. She was receiving a paycheck, didn’t seem very engaged, and so then we had the difficult decision of, wow, do we take the leap of faith and open a brand new hospital in this area? That’s what we ended up deciding to do together. So I was able to bring some financial resources that by then I had earned through the success of my first practice and systems that we had developed to this next practice and then my partner. I have to give a huge shout out to his partner, Laurie Abrams, who was a phenomenally skilled technician and leader and manager. So they were quite a dynamic duo, and they really did the lion’s share of the work to grow that practice. Then I was fly commuting back and forth and spending a week living and sleeping in the little doctor’s sleep room, busting out shifts, and helping to get that up and going. We worked with some great specialists initially who subleased and then who eventually some of them became a part of our practice, and so that evolved into a second 24/7 emergency specialty practice. Then when I relocated, then I was a part of, I left my beloved San Diego family behind, but I was part of a new practice that I was already involved in.
Challenges and Mistakes in Practice
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Then I made another big mistake in my professional life, and I thought, well, Jim Clark is here now full time and I can really make things better. My partners were already doing a really good job with that practice, and I hope they’ll forgive me for overstepping my bounds with my zeal. But partnerships are like that. They are challenging collaborations and they are rewarding, and when you hear a partnership is like a marriage, yeah, it is in a lot of ways, without maybe some of the fun perks of being married to a partner where you’re having fun together. Although we did try to incorporate that. So I’ve been really fortunate to have wonderful partners, and so then in that practice, two other amazing veterinarians, Dr. Peter Bowie, Dr. Chris Rohde, became a part of that practice. The four of us were owners. Then I had completed an MBA program in San Diego, and I did my master’s thesis studying the market demographics of emergency specialty care throughout the entire San Francisco Bay Area. So I created non overlapping trade area demographics of 300 general practices to look at where they were being served by after hours and specialty services and then was really looking for where’s the next greenfielding opportunity. To my knowledge, that at that time was the largest study of that nature that had been done in the country, and I learned a lot about it. What I recognized was that the Bay Area was already pretty well served and that acquisitions would be better than start up. So then with other partners, and sort of my main partner, Dr. Chris Rohde, we ended up purchasing an emergency practice in Berkeley that was previously shareholder owned and another emergency practice in an area called Fairfield. Both of these being Northern San Francisco Bay Area that also had been shareholder owned. Then we really had three sister practices, collaborating but operating as separate businesses with separate partners. At Berkeley, I had two other amazing partners, Dr. Mike Barlea and RVT Hallie Alvarez. In Fairfield, two amazing partners, Dr. Chris Schakowsky, and Lori Davis, who was a technician and seasoned manager. We were very unusual at that time, Jordan, in having non-veterinarians as fellow owners in the practice, and our non-veterinary owners, Hallie and Lori, were just fabulous partners. Their contribution to the success of both of those practices could not be overstated. That’s something that I think is an opportunity that other veterinarians might want to consider. So then that led to being a part of these three practices, working with a group of partners, growing, learning. I continued to work emergency shifts until there came a point where, and really did emergency for about 20 years, and then, honestly, I was getting a little burnout. I’d also reached a point where with my partners, it became clear that sometimes you could have too many cooks in the kitchen, if you know what I mean. They were so talented, and they were interested themselves in backing off on emergency shifts and being more involved in management and leadership. They were super talented in many ways, I think more talented than me, and so that gave me the opportunity to kind of rethink and consider, well, what do I want to do? I don’t want to be an impediment to my partners or get in their way, and I’m feeling a little burnout on the clinical side of practice at this point.
Teaching and Academia
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: And I love teaching and I didn’t mention it, but when I was in San Diego, I taught for 5 years in an RVT training program, surgery, anesthesia, anatomy, and physiology, and I simply loved it. So I thought, “maybe I’ll get back into that”, and that’s when a friend reached out and said, “Jim, there’s this position leading the doctoring program at the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine, your alma mater, and you were made for that position, you got to apply”, which was so kind of her. It’s a wonderful criticalist who encouraged me in that way. So I looked into it, and I didn’t feel worthy. I was not and I am not a veterinary specialist, I’m a DVM MBA with some knowledge, but I’m not a specialist. But I was given a chance, and I think they took a leap of faith on somebody who was much more clinician than an academician in bringing me on board. Initially, it was a 50% position, then it quickly went to 70% and remained there through most of the last 13 years. That gave me a chance to get into that academic environment, work with the future of the profession, veterinary students, and I have loved the opportunity. My faculty colleagues at Davis have been so supportive, and just to be in that environment has been a really cool experience. So I had a foot in really in two realms, one in academia and teaching doctoring skills, and the other for quite a few years was still being a part in the management and leadership of my practices. We sold those several years ago, and that then allowed me to move on and pursue some different things, but I still continue to teach. I’m back down to 50% now of my allocation with Davis, and I have two fabulous teaching colleagues, Dr. Eric Olstad and Anshali Dariani, who are the succession plan in the future of leading the teaching in these professional skills. Which includes communication, business, mental health and well-being, diversity, equity, inclusion, career path planning, and more. For me to get to be a part of helping students grow in those areas, I feel like those are areas that are of such practical importance, and being happy and being successful as a veterinarian, I just feel super lucky.
Jordan Benshea: Jim, what a wonderful path, and thank you so much for taking our listeners through that. It gives us some visibility that you’ve had this rare opportunity to be both practicing and then this teaching role that you love that now you get to engage with the students. I bet that’s such a rare opportunity for them, but I also want to go back for a moment and hear what you said about and to put a bit of focus on, that you had non-veterinarians as practice owners with you as partners because that is so rare to hear. There’s huge value in that because I would imagine that not only do you have veterinary colleagues that feel validified and valued, but by having a non-veterinarian owner, then it helps those that are in the practice, if they’re not veterinarians, still feel that opportunity for potential growth in their life. Show them a path where that’s an option, and I think that’s really great.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Well, thank you, Jordan. I’m going to jump back because you identified my journey as a unique one, and I have to say that with all these veterinarians that I get to work with as one of the leaders of the doctoring program at Davis, and we have panels and I get to interface with so many interesting colleagues, there are so many unique fascinating journeys in this field. Then to be clear, this idea of, yeah, I have to practice and also be an educator, but I would argue that every veterinarian has that opportunity literally right in front of them. That would be using the knowledge and skills that we’ve worked hard to develop and continue to develop and sharing those with members of our team, and when we do that, it’s such a win-win. It’s also a win for the business, by the way. So let’s call it a win-win-win because what’s really going on there is that we, well, through teaching these skills, we are both reinforcing our own ability. There’s the old adage, if you’re willing to learn something, teach it. That is very true. So we have that opportunity, then we’re honoring the members of our team by seeing and hearing them and demonstrating that you are a talented member of the team, and you can put in this catheter, and you can scope for this nasal foxtail, and you can monitor anesthesia and oversee the safety and welfare of this patient. These are sacred trusts that we should not release lightly, but if we’re willing to invest the time to help our team members grow, what I’ve consistently found is that they feel honored, they flourish, and we create a culture of learning where they’re more likely to go on and share that with somebody else rather than keeping that closely guarded. So there’s that benefit. Then the business benefit is then if we as veterinarians are able to hand off responsibilities that others are very capable of doing and, of course, can within the standards of care, legally perform, then we can and should be doing that. So that part, that education part, it’s there for all of us. Then to circle back to having non-veterinarians as owners, I want to distinguish between two different types of non-veterinarians. So one type of non-veterinarian would be a member of the veterinary team with deep knowledge and skills of the veterinary profession, which describes my non-veterinary partners to a T. In one case, a registered veterinary technician and manager. In the other, a technician and a seasoned manager who brought skills from other areas of management. Now I see that as different from a non-veterinary owner who is not part of the veterinary profession.
Jordan Benshea: Absolutely.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: They may bring knowledge and skills that are beneficial and that we can grow and learn from, but I do have some concern about their preparation and ability to be making decisions about what we can and should be doing in operating our practices and fulfilling our responsibility to care for animal patients and clients in a very compassionate and talented way.
Jordan Benshea: Yeah, and that’s a very good clarification. I was referring to those of veterinary knowledge, but not veterinary medicine practice.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: I knew you were.
Jordan Benshea: But I really appreciate you making that distinction, especially in a time now where we have private equity owning veterinary practices and very far removed owners in many ways. So that’s a very good distinction. Thank you.
Corporate Ownership in Veterinary Medicine
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: My position on that since we’re talking about this topic is, and often my students are curious about this since I’m teaching the business course at the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine is that, the large corporate groups are, they’re with us, they’re here to stay. Like anything, there are pros and cons related to them, and I find myself, I’m not anti large corporate. In fact, I’d be hypocritical if I were because we sold our my practices to two different large corporate groups. We tried to be very selective in that, and to seek out groups that had veterinarians in key leadership positions because I continue to feel that that is very important. Not just for the profession, but actually for the success of those large corporate groups, not necessarily in the short term, but in the longer term. What I’ve seen is that large corporate groups are often better managers of practices than many veterinarians, and if they are better managers in a responsible, ethical, appropriate way, that then can allow these groups to provide better salaries and better benefits and better work schedules, and in some cases, better medicine and better service. Is that always the case? No. Sometimes it’s very much not the case. It depends on who is leading these large corporate groups and what are their priorities and what is their timeline for return on investment and all of those things. But anyway, that’s sort of where I stand in brief on that.
Opportunities for New Graduates
Jordan Benshea: Well, I appreciate you mentioning that because I think one thing that we hear a lot is, we have students coming out of veterinary school and it might seem somewhat daunting, the idea of independent practice ownership right now. You’ve spent so much time with students, so I’d be curious what your thoughts are. And if there are students who have a business desire and want to own their own practice, what sort of opportunities do you see for them in the veterinary landscape today?
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: I’m so glad you asked this, Jordan, because there’s some very misleading information or maybe some myths going on out there that I think would be important for us to unpack. Let’s expand our discussion from not only veterinary students who might be interested in future ownership to veterinary associates who are working out in the field and may consider that as well. So that opportunity is out there. As we think about this we should pause and be grateful, Jordan, that within vet med we have this opportunity. This has largely gone away in human medicine. Within veterinary medicine, we do still have this opportunity, and I don’t foresee that changing anytime soon, which I think is wonderful. Now if we look back historically, about 40% of all veterinarians were and served as an owner at some point in their career. That percentage has been declining. I haven’t seen really good, very recent information on it, but I would imagine that’s closer to 25-30% currently. So what’s happening is that fewer individuals within our field, whether veterinary students or veterinary associates, are interested in becoming an owner. There are a whole variety of reasons for that, many of which are very valid pros and cons to ownership. However, the question that you ask is, what does the opportunity look like today, and sort of the message that I seem to hear and read is that, yeah, those days are kind of done. You’re up against these big corporate groups with a lot more money and a lot more savvy and a lot more in the way of resources than you could possibly have, and they have a lot greater leverage to be able to purchase the supplies that we rely on within veterinary practice at a much lower cost and how are you going to compete with that. So this message is one of concern about the potential for future ownership. I would say it’s a scarcity mentality. What I see instead is that, yes the large corporate groups do have opportunities that are beyond what an individual practice could enjoy, and yet there’s also the flip side, which is that the independent practice has opportunities which would be extremely difficult for a large corporate group to be able to achieve. So, with that in mind, what I see happening is the large corporate groups are focused on mid to large scale practices, which makes sense for them because every one of these businesses then has to be managed, and unless that business is generating a certain level of revenue stream, investing that energy and focus on the management of that business doesn’t make good business sense, at least that’s what my MBA training would say. So they understandably are interested in the mid to larger size practice, which to be clear, in the scale of all businesses is still a small business relative to the broad business world. But within vet med, there are many, many practitioners who have owned their practice often for many years. They may be in good locations because they purchased that real estate or signed that lease a long time ago. Their facility may might not look the shiniest and the best, they might have the orange naugahyde upholstery on in the waiting area, but that might be a good location. They’ve served their clients. They’ve built a following over time. Are they practicing cutting edge medicine? Maybe they are and maybe they aren’t, but if that practice is a one to two doctor practice, that’s going to be below the radar of the large corporate groups for good reason. So those individuals then, when their time comes to step back and or completely step away and retire, they’re going to need to find a buyer for that practice, and the way that practice is likely to be valued is that it’s probably not a highly profitable practice because the owner hasn’t had to worry much about that. They probably paid off all their bills quite a while ago. So they’re not too worried about it, they may not be working even full time. They may not be practicing the most cutting edge medicine that generates the most revenue, etcetera. So this creates a evaluation opportunity for these practices that often is very attractive. So the opportunity that I see that is ripe for the taking is to look for those opportunities and create a win win where those veterinarians have an exit strategy, where they are paid for the equity in the business that they developed over years, where they can feel good about the transition of that practice that will carry forward, they’re going to leave a positive legacy, that their team will have new energy and enthusiasm from another private owner who will come and and grow the practice and give it the tender loving care that it deserves. So we have a lot of wins there, and then on the part of the buyer, being able to buy a practice where you’re not competing at the valuations of the large corporate groups. Maybe working with an owner who’s willing to offer generous financing terms because the owner believes in you and in the opportunity of the practice, that could be a win. And then the goal would be to get in there and grow that practice. For veterinarians who are successful in doing that, then they could either continue to grow that practice and have that be their long term home, or they might look at that and say, “I have an exit strategy in 5 years or 10 years”, or whatever that might be. By then, this one or two doctor practice, it’s now a seven doctor practice, and it’s generating millions of dollars in revenue, and that’s going to be a very attractive acquisition for a large group. The return on that investment that they’re going to be willing to pay for appropriately is going to be far more attractive than it has been for many, many, many, many decades in veterinary medicine. So that potential return on equity of growing a small practice into a mid to large practice is better than it’s ever been in the profession. Another opportunity would be to do a start up, which requires a lot of energy and there’s risk taking and you need more money upfront to pull that off. But if you have the energy and the drive and the enthusiasm to do that and then you grow that practice into a very successful multi doctor practice serving that community, you’re going to have a lot of advantages. Now how are you going to compete with that huge corporate group? Well, there are lots of different ways to do that, but what it boils down to is creating a work environment which attracts the best, and allows you to attract and retain great individuals because at the end of the day, people, people, people, people are going to matter the most. Not the fanciest facility, not whether you have the most cutting edge technology or not. It’s going to be who’s on your team. So that opportunity is definitely out there because if you’re a vested owner and you’re there, you can and should be aware of and willing to support your team in that way. I look at the large corporate groups, and so far, most of them, and in my opinion, are not paying much attention to some of the most important things, which would be really thinking about providing training that is going to be most impactful for their team. I’m going to argue that communication skill training is right up there in that, but it’s often neglected.
Jordan Benshea: Agreed.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: The other area would be in really thinking about creating, what can we do to create that culture where people feel seen and heard and valued and not a cog in a big machine.
Jordan Benshea: Yeah. I think that’s really true, and very good point about the one to two doctor practices because I know one doctor, colleague, who is looking to sell her practice, and she went through a very challenging situation where somebody said they’re going to buy it and they had sent an email to people and clients and all that, and then 3 days left, the person pulled out. But she lives in a very highly desirable area, and she’s now a two doctor practice, and they found that challenging. Then another colleague lives in a more remote area, and they, due to some health issues with their family resorted to posting online, like, I really need some help because I’ve got this family stuff going on, is there anyone that can help me? And through that, found a huge community of support in their area and now has found an associate who’s probably going to purchase the practice. Which is a great story because there’s a few different situations in small communities where I know about one or two doctor practices where this community, I mean, when that veterinarian retires, you’re like, who’s going to be supporting these animals in this community. That can be so challenging, so those are, I think those are some good tips. I’m just kinda curious, what sort of, are there resources that you think are very helpful for those looking to purchase a practice? And you as a practice owner, what would you, what are some of the first steps you would recommend for that?
Advice for Aspiring Practice Owners
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Sure, Jordan. Great question. So first off, I’m going to throw out a timeline. I’ve mentioned this already, but I think it’s important, which would be for veterinary students or new or very recent grads, my encouragement to you would be focus on growing those medical and surgical skills. Make that job number one. While you’re doing that, become a keen observer of the environment that you’re working in. Changing jobs and experiencing several different practice environments when you are a recent graduate can be very insightful. I’m very grateful that I had that because I learned from each of my employers there are things that I love that I wanted to emulate, and then there were some things that were like, yeah, I think we could handle that differently. So I think that that learning curve is really going to be the most important learning curve. A way to grow that would be to through keen observation, and, part of this also, I think, should be around refining. What is your vision for how you want to deliver veterinary care to animals and people and on the workplace that you want to create for your team?That is a much more important reason and driver for becoming an owner in a veterinary practice than, I think I want to become an owner to make more money. In fact, if that’s the primary focus, that is not a recipe for success. So instead, learning, observing, refining the vision on a day to day basis where you’re working, that’s the most important thing. Then in terms of sort of supplements, Jordan, to that, one of those would be, and I’m not sharing this just because I’m talking with you, VIN is a great resource. The discussions that go on at VIN and the skilled leaders of those discussions and the colleagues who offer helpful and insightful peer advice is invaluable, not just in medicine and surgery, but in the realm of business. VIN even has a Start Up Club for new entrepreneurs because it can feel kind of lonely to do that if you’re trying to do that on your own. So that’s a fabulous resource. I think reading and learning on the side, I’m usually reading 2 to 3 different books at a time, and one of them is fun and then one of them is maybe self growth, and one of them is around business professional. So being curious, doing some reading on the side around business, business principles, etcetera, would be a great way to go. Do you need an MBA? My students ask that, should I pursue an MBA? I want to be a successful practice owner. My resounding and rapid answer is heck no. You do not need an MBA to be a super successful veterinary practice owner. I know amazing practice owners far more skilled than I who do not have MBAs. What they have instead, I don’t know what letters to put it in, RLP, real life practice, and they’re tremendously talented. An MBA, I think, would be beneficial if your goal was to work within a large corporate organization, then I think having that understanding, definitely beneficial. If you wanted to go into consulting, definitely beneficial. For me, I don’t think I would have my position at UC Davis if I hadn’t added some letters to my DVM, but to be very successful, that is not necessary. MBAs are expensive, many programs are over $100,000. Adding that debt is significant, and they’re a very big time investment. In my case, Jordan, one of my motivators for doing my MBA was I was involved as an owner in these two practices and I felt like I haven’t really studied business. I was a zoology major. I’ve been focused on science, and I want to be a good steward of the businesses that I’m a part of, and I must be missing the golden key, the golden key to understanding and running a great business. I’m serious. I thought that that’s what I was going to find. So I invested 2 years in, a lot of time and energy, in an executive MBA program. I loved the experience. It was way more work than I expected. But you know what I found, Jordan? At least I didn’t find it, I don’t think there is a golden key.
Jordan Benshea: Wait, what?
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: It is instead the myriad of details and knowledge and understanding and surrounding yourself with good people who have skill sets that are always going to be beyond yours that are more the recipes for success. So I’ll be clear that I don’t think that’s necessary. On the other hand, CE opportunities that are focused on building some basic understanding of business concepts that many of us have never had, would be of value and developing veterinary specific knowledge about our field, both of those things would be valuable and important. So now I get to share a unapologetic plug for a business program that I’m a part of leading at the UC Davis School of Veterinary Medicine. Our previous dean, Michael Lairmore, I have huge respect for. He had the vision to say, “hey, Jim, I think we have an opportunity to partner with the Graduate School of Management, very highly regarded business program at UC Davis. They have developed these online modules around basic business concepts, finance, accounting, marketing, HR, that are well done, and they’re online so they could be on demand. If that were combined with live veterinary specific component to this program, that could be a really good combination, and by the way, if we do this you have to make this available to at least some of our students”. So I’m like, “wait, this is a more advanced business program, how do we do that?”, it turns out he was right. So we created the Foundations of Veterinary Business program at UC Davis. We’re in now, I think it’s our 4th year, it’s been very popular. We’ve had great feedback, and it’s an online program that begins, currently begins in the spring. We take up to 42 participants who are very largely working professionals, and then we do still include some UC Davis students. It is time efficient, cost effective, and self paced online modules combined with 3 live Zoom sessions where which I oversee the veterinary specific part of it, where I bring together industry professionals. I teach in one of them around accounting and finance, and we take a very practical view on applying these principles specifically within veterinary medicine. Then we incorporate into the program a fabulous capstone project where our participants work in a small group, this all being done virtually, to analyze a treasure trove of data from a selection of real life practices. This is orchestrated by my friend and colleague, Jeff Sanford, out of University of Georgia. They analyze these practices and then share with the rest of our cohort their analysis of what’s really going on in the business, how could it be improved, etcetera. So I’m really proud to be a part of that program, and in my opinion, it’s one of the most practical ways to grow skills and to pursue the training when you’re thinking about making that transition towards ownership, I think, would be the best timing.
Jordan Benshea: That’s wonderful. We’ll definitely, we always put in the episode notes all the links and information, so we’ll make sure to get that link from you so that colleagues can see that because that would be a great opportunity, and probably a little bit less of a commitment than an MBA.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: It would be what, 2% of the cost and designed for working professionals where you can complete the online material at your own pace. Yes, you need to commit to giving up 3 Saturdays, but according to our feedback, is very strong in the return on investment for the program. We still have some slots for this spring.
Jordan Benshea: That’s wonderful. We’ll definitely put that in the episode notes.
Outro
Jordan Benshea: I so appreciate your time with us, Jim, and thank you for sharing your journey and how you’ve gotten to where you are in this job that you love in many ways, and also your extracurricular activities, which are the projects that you work on that I always find so fascinating and critical for the profession. Is there anything else you want to leave our audience with today?
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Thank you, Jordan. I think one thing that stands out to me in being an educator in this field and a clinician in this field and a former practice owner and a pet owner is that, I think it’s important, of course, to identify with your vocation, with your profession. I definitely identify as being a veterinarian. However, a mental health professional, a friend and colleague of mine has made it very clear, Jim, you veterinarians over identify with your profession, and I don’t think she’s right, I know she’s right. So by that, what I would throw out there would be that, yeah, it’s great that we’re passionate about our profession, it has a lot of challenges. You and I know, mental health concerns are very real within the profession, but it also has an opportunity for very high job satisfaction and not just compassion fatigue, but compassion satisfaction. So we have all of that there. However, what may be most important and healthy for us is to be able to step back and look at ourselves as not just veterinarians, but we’re being a veterinarian is one facet of the different other important roles that we play in our lives, whether that’s as a partner to someone, whether that’s as a pet parent to our own animals, whether that’s as a parent, a member of a family, a friend, maybe, a hobby you have, so human beings are all those things. I think when we lose sight of that as veterinarians, we are putting all our eggs in one basket, and no matter what that basket is, that is unlikely to fulfill all of our needs as a human being. So my encouragement would be just to maybe reflect on, how am I thinking about myself?
Jordan Benshea: I think that’s very good advice, and very well rounded, which I think is a topic that we have discussed many times in this episode. So thank you, Jim. Thank you for taking the time and effort and sharing with our listeners, and I’m sure that your story and your sharing of your experience will be very helpful. So thank you so much.
Jim Clark, DVM, MBA: Jordan, you’re most welcome, and thank you for the opportunity to share my story. It’s always a growing opportunity for me.
Jordan Benshea: Wonderful. Thank you, Jim. Thank you for joining us for this episode of the Veterinary Pulse. Please check the episode notes for additional information referenced in the podcast. If you enjoyed this podcast, please follow, subscribe, and share a review. We welcome feedback and hope you will tune in again. You can find out more about the VIN Foundation through our website, VINFoundation.org, and our social media channels. Thank you for being here. Be well.
