Listen in as we talk with VIN Foundation board member, Dr. Sean Gadson as he takes us through his veterinary career journey. From Sean’s passion for diversity, equity and inclusion, to his mom’s advice and the importance of mentors, to his ongoing effort to impress his 7 year-old self, his recommendations for pre-veterinary students, and the trends he sees in the profession. Sean’s story and honesty is enriching and provides helpful guidance and insight for colleagues at all stages of their careers.
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GUEST BIO:
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS
Sean Gadson has enjoyed a long career working in veterinary medicine starting as an assistant when he was fourteen. He would continue working in various clinics and veterinary organizations while pursuing his undergraduate and master’s degrees. After completing a research project and writing a thesis on Polycystic Ovary Syndrome in people, he applied to UC Davis for vet school and graduated in 2021. During his time as a student Dr. Gadson served as president of the UC Davis SAVMA chapter, and Vice- President of their VBMA chapter. After graduation, he completed an intensive rotating small animal specialty internship where he cultivated a passion for emergency medicine. He now works as an emergency veterinarian in Colorado with his wife Mollie who is a surgeon, and their dog Ahri. His interests include supporting other early career veterinarians, mentoring pre-vet students, practice ownership, traveling and speaking to students currently in vet school, and advocating for more minority representation in the veterinary industry.
LINKS AND INFORMATION:
- Student American Veterinary Medical Association (SAVMA)
- Veterinary Business Management Association (VBMA)
- VIN Foundation Vets4Vets® confidential wellness support
- Mike Dunn, DVM Veterinary Student Scholarship created by Becky Godchaux
- Veterinary Information Network (VIN)
- Mentor – Dr. James Clark
- Mentor – Dr. Paul D. Pion
- Ask Jeeves
- Kajukenbo
- Dr. Sean Gadson on LinkedIn and on Instagram
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TRANSCRIPT
Intro
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: If it was up to me, I would go around and reach out to like, if you’re a vet student period and are interested in vet med and all that stuff, I would love to talk to you and really fill you in on what it’s like and all that. Especially if you’re an African American or if you’re black in this country and you’re like, “oh, I want to do this, but there’s not a lot of black people who do it, maybe that means I shouldn’t do it”. Or even sometimes like within my own culture you’ll hear black people don’t do that, like black people do whatever, like we are cable, whatever we want, like we could definitely do it. It is something that every day you go to work, it is like very apparent. It is something that I’m actively trying to normalize, is if you’re interested in this and you have the passion and we talk about all the struggles of being a veterinarian, as far as the burnout and the mental health load and the debt and all those things, and you still want to do it, I think you should regardless of your background, 100%.
Guest Introduction and Podcast Overview
Jordan Benshea: That is veterinarian and VIN Foundation Board Member, Dr. Sean Gadson, and this is the VIN Foundation’s Veterinary Pulse Podcast. I’m Jordan Benshea Executive Director of the VIN Foundation. Join me as we talk with veterinary colleagues about critical topics and share stories, stories that connect us as humans, as animals, as a veterinary community. This podcast is made possible by individuals like you who donate to the VIN Foundation. Thank you. Please check the episode notes for bios links and information mentioned. Hi, Sean. Welcome to the podcast.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Hey, thanks so much for having me.
Jordan Benshea: I’m super excited to have you first of all, as our newest VIN Foundation board member, and then also as our next podcast guest.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, no, thanks for having me. I’m excited, it’ll be fun.
Sean’s Journey to Veterinary Medicine
Jordan Benshea: Well, as we start every episode, let’s start with talking about your veterinary professional journey, and how did you find your way to veterinary medicine? Did you have this initial aha moment? Was it something you’ve always known? How did you find yourself in the veterinary profession?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, that’s a great question. I wish I had some cool, oh my gosh, like I’ve wanted it forever kind of story thing and I feel like when you ask a lot of vet students and veterinarians that you’ll get some version. Mine is definitely a little bit different.
Early Career and Education
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: I guess for some context, so I grew up in the Bay area of California. My mom raised my brother and I essentially as a single parent, and she just bagged groceries at Safeway and money was tied, and our initial upbringing very much reflected that. But my mom always took my education, my brother’s education very seriously. She wanted us to know you can do anything you want, you can go to college, whatever you want to do and we’ll figure it out. But as you would imagine, not everyone in that kind of environment will be as supportive and feel the same way. So I used to hear things all the time that was like, “oh, just get your GED and that’s all anyone can expect of you, and as long as you make it through high school, you’re doing great”. And there’s nothing wrong with those things, but I just really had this idea that I wanted to do something and like really climb with my education. I had no idea what it was, but I remember being like young, like maybe 6, 7, like something along those lines, and some kid in school must have said something like this to me and I just got fed up. I just got like a super big chip on my shoulder and I was like, “you know what? I don’t know what it is, but I want it to be hard. I need something really difficult because I want to prove to everyone that I am very much capable of things like this by extension of my family”. So I literally remember going home and like booting up a computer, and I’m going to date myself when I say this, but I remember booting up “AskJeeves.com”.
Jordan Benshea: Love it. Yeah, I miss “”Ask Jeeves”” so much.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: oh my God. I know.
Jordan Benshea: I was in college during “Ask Jeeves” and a couple of my good friends worked there because I went to Berkeley, so I was in the Bay area, which was super fun. So we were both in the Bay area, same time with “Ask Jeeves”.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah.
Jordan Benshea: Wait, for those that don’t know, “Ask Jeeves” was a website that you have to pretty much go and ask a questions and it had a little butler there or a butler equivalent named Jeeves and that was the dude’s name. So you would ask Jeeves similarly to how you ask Google now. So yeah. Okay. So you’re asking Jeeves.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: I asked Jeeves. I know I’ll have to tell my kids one day that I did search engines pre Google before Googling was a verb. But yeah, so I go and I asked Jeeves, like literally I think the question was like, what is one of the hardest careers to get into and vet med came up. It was like one of the top searches, and I was like, great, then that’s what we’re doing because I have something to prove and I’m upset and blah, blah, blah, and I held onto that.
Discovering Veterinary Passion
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: So that was when I was young, like I said, like 6, 7 years old and I didn’t step foot into a veterinary clinic until I was like 12 or 13…
Jordan Benshea: But you held it for all that time?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Oh, I just held it the entire time, I was so mad. Then I just got really lucky that when I finally got old enough, I think I was about 14, to get my worker’s permit, and I got a job literally just cleaning kennels at this like general practice in my hometown. I just happened to love it, like I love the people, I mean I always liked animals and all that, but I just really liked watching the doctors that were there at the time work and how they interacted, not only with the patients, like the pets, but the clients too. I think that’s something that you don’t get quite as much, is enjoying the human to human interaction part of vet med, which is quite a lot of it. So I just stuck with it, and I worked as a veterinary assistant, man, probably for like 13 years before I applied to vet school because I did it through high school. I did a master’s degree, that was 3 years, worked while I was doing that too, did it through, like my undergraduate as well, that’s another . Then, yeah, all the way up until I started veterinary school, and so it was great. I just got lucky and literally a chip on my shoulder got me to fall into like my passion. So that’s my weird, atypical story about how this all started.
Jordan Benshea: But how incredible, you just think to yourself I want the hardest thing and you “Ask Jeeves” it. Then you go, okay, this is what it’s going to be, and then you stuck with it and found your passion, and how lucky is that? I don’t think most people would say a chip on the shoulder leads them in positive directions, or it has the possibility not to. So I think it’s wonderful that this did for you. So you went to undergrad and then what did you get your master’s in?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, so kind of a random story too, but so my master’s is actually in biomedical sciences. I actually studied a human disease called polycystic ovarian syndrome. It is actually like a very, very debilitating and tough disease that women will get and essentially has all of these metabolic issues that come with it. Things like fertility problems and weight loss and hair growth and things like that, and so, both physically and mentally, it can be a really crippling disease. Unfortunately the history of the research behind it, honestly, as a lot of research is when you look back, a little bit was very like male centric. Like you’re studying a disease that really affects and debilitates women, but in like male models. I did that for 3 years, got to talk to a lot of women with PCOS and that was such a great humbling experience to hear their stories, wrote a thesis, and then right as I finished that project up was when that school started calling. So I finished that up, wrapped it up, and I think, I was at Central Washington University, and I think they’re still actually working on that project and building on the research that we did with the base data that we got, and then I headed off to vet school.
Jordan Benshea: Wow and how amazing that you focused on that. That’s definitely a topic, which I think with women’s health right now is getting more visibility as very well deserved. That’s definitely a topic that we’re seeing getting more coverage too, which I think is wonderful, and how exciting that you were part of that. Part of that on the human level. Then now, so you get into veterinary school, where do you go?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: oh, yeah.
Veterinary School Experience
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: So I went to UC Davis for vet school. Once really like in my life, the idea of becoming a veterinarian and all that started getting traction, I mean, I was born and raised in California, so that really did become like the forefront of my thought. But to be like completely transparent, I love Davis, it was amazing, I had a great education, but definitely as the logistics of going to vet school, and I’m sure we’ll get on this later, but the cost and all of that started to come into play. It became less and less about Davis being, like my shining goal on the hill, and more about, I need that sweet, sweet in state tuition so bad. So I, luckily even though I was in Washington, I wasn’t there long enough where I…
Jordan Benshea: Switched residency?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Was not considered. Yeah, exactly, so then I got to maintain my California residency and do the in state tuition there.
Jordan Benshea: Okay, so that was going to be one of my questions, which was where did you apply?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: oh, yeah. That’s a great question. I applied all kinds of, honestly, all kinds of places. Davis was definitely like my top choice, but I sent out applications to like Georgia, Oregon State, Penn, where else? There’s a bunch, Colorado, where I am now, ironically. Yeah, I was very much not, I have never felt like any one vet school clearly gives any superior education or anything to another. I’ve been lucky enough to have mentors who come from all different kinds of vet schools, and they all do great medicine. I mean, the in state tuition definitely was something I really wanted to focus on, but if I had ended up at another school I would have had no problem with that. So, I really just shot down the application now.
Jordan Benshea: So, did you send out, because we’ve had some pre vets recently asking these questions and I’m just kind of curious, did you apply to, like, 7 or 8 schools? Or do you think you applied to 10?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: No, I did a little more. I think I did 10 or 11, something like that. The thing about that too, that they don’t really tell you very much until you start doing the application, is that the more schools you apply to, that cost racks up.
Jordan Benshea: Yeah, that’s one of the reasons I was asking.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, and so, it very much was like I would have loved to apply to more. But logistically I was like, especially at that time in my life, I was like, okay, we can max send out this number. So yeah, I think I did 10 or maybe 11 schools.
Jordan Benshea: Yeah, and UC Davis is great. Not only because you get that in state tuition, but then they also have this grant where each student gets about $7,500 a year towards their tuition, which they don’t put on their website because it’s sort of ebb and flows, but that’s also a huge benefit. So that can really be, I mean, for sure, one of the most cost effective. Absolutely, if you’re a California resident. Okay, so you go to UC Davis and how was that experience for you in veterinary school?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, vet school honestly was amazing. I know a lot of people will talk about it and talk about like the effort and the struggle and you’re up late all the time and all that and studying. Those things are all true, but like the wonder of what I was doing never really faded while I was there, just because it was something that I wanted for so, so long. To be totally honest, like when you go into a profession like that from an underrepresented community as a black man and all this stuff, like really the gravity of what you achieved as you’re like going through it and doing it and hopefully setting an example for other people who really want to do things like this. Yeah, it was just a huge deal. I think that is a big reason, while I was in vet school, I had this really great, I’ll never forget, I had this amazing conversation with my mother. Maybe it was like a week before I actually started going, a week before, they call it prologue, which is like your intro, I think it’s like a week or two weeks. I remember I’m about to head over and my mom, we were, I was talking to her and she was like, you only have two obligations while you go to vet school. That was to get every opportunity you can out of it while you’re there, and to stay yourself while you’re doing it, was like what she told me. She’s like those are the things. She’s like you have been an assistant for all these years never changed who you are for anybody, you applied to vet school did your master’s all that, you’ve been Sean the whole time, stay that way even though there aren’t a lot of people with your background to end up doing this. I was like fair enough like, okay. Honestly, I credit so much of the things I did in vet school to her for that conversation because that thought in my mind is so much the reason why I was so involved with school clubs.
Extracurricular Involvement and Mentorship
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: I was really big into VBMA and SAVMA and trying my best to make not only my vet school experience really good, but better it for other vet students too, because I all of a sudden was in this community that I’ve been trying to break into for over a decade. I just really wanted it to be like a good special experience not only for me, but for other people. I worked hard in school, I was very involved in extracurriculars, met some amazing people, some incredible mentors who have fundamentally changed my life on the way through. Shout out Jim Clark, Paul Pion, you guys are amazing. I feel like they took me seriously before I took me seriously, and it was just an incredible experience. I’m rambling, but I loved vet school. It was crazy, but amazing.
Jordan Benshea: Mentors are really important and to be able to have them and to hear your mom’s advice and to take that. I mean, you know, being in veterinary school, huge time consumption on its own, and then on top of that, SAVMA, VBMA. So SAVMA, we should just tell our listeners, a lot of them will probably know what it is, but if you just want to explain SAVMA and VBMA.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, definitely. So SAVMA is the Student American Veterinary Medical Association. Essentially it is the student arm of the AVMA, which is of course like a very large advocacy group for the veterinary profession in general. I was president of SAVMA, of UC Davis’s chapter of SAVMA while I was at UC Davis. Essentially what that would entail was like, going to a few conferences every year, advocating for what SAVMA would bring to the national AVMA as far as our position on certain like legislative opportunities. Things like that and really trying to affect students in vet med as a whole. That was amazing, I loved that. Then more in the day to day at UC Davis, SAVMA specifically will oversee a lot of the other student organizations. At the time I was there, it was over like 35 student organizations, all that do incredible work, like facilitating intrusive students. So it was things like, helping manage scheduling for student events and fundraising opportunities and then disseminating like scholarships to students and certain funding opportunities and also partnering with like Davis’s legislation. I got to, speak with our dean, at the time it was Dean Michael Larimore, and work with him on like a bunch of good opportunities to, to expand the opportunities for students in vet school. So that was SAVMA. Then VBMA is the Veterinary Business Management Association. I was vice president of that organization while I was at Davis, and that is really focused around facilitating more business education for veterinary students, which is something that is insanely important. I think over time we are seeing that become more and more part of, or that is considered more and more knowledge that veterinary students and veterinarians should know. I have always had an interest in practice ownership myself, so that business bug was always there. But essentially what we did was we had a bunch of talks and like events centered around people who have some, their career involved some aspect of business ownership or facilitating business in some way in veterinary medicine, and talking to students about it and why it’s important and what their career paths look like. I also did some traveling and went to conventions for national VBMA, and that was amazing too. I learned so, so much, and especially as time goes on, I think, veterinarians love to feel like they’re separate from the business aspect, like you go in, you do the medicine, and you go home. But I think more and more in reality, we’re seeing that some level of business acumen is really helpful in your day to day job. So I think that expanding that skillset is really important.
Jordan Benshea: Yeah, because a lot of people get into veterinary medicine because they love animals, but a lot of it’s dealing with people, and people come with all, we all come with all of our own challenges and having that business aspect. I mean, there’s a lot of aspects from a practice perspective almost similar to sales, which sounds so weird, but there’s that aspect too. It seems like so many that are in VBMA could be so helpful, and same with SAVMA, just having that engagement. So it seems like you took advantage of a bunch of resources while you were in school, were there some resources that you wish existed while you were in school that didn’t? Or that you found like missing? Or you wished would be there in hindsight?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: That’s a really good question. I think, like when I think back on that, I guess the biggest things I think, because those resources that I wish, I guess they are out there. I just wish that they were more utilized or like more people really knew about them. But I would say, for me personally, the biggest resources were, like my group of friends were amazing and I really rallied around. Like at the time, we were living with a couple other students who were like four in a house and they were amazing for sure. The leadership opportunities were great too, but not only the ones I was involved with, like, even as involved as it sounds like I was, I really wish I did take more advantage of other like student clubs that were there. Even though I’m an emergency clinician now, like I really didn’t do much with the emergency ICU club that Davis had. I wish I would have, I think that would have been a great opportunity. I wish I had used, been more involved in student leadership groups centered around like diversity inclusion in vet school. I definitely did some of that, but I definitely underutilized those resources for sure, and I wish that I had taken. I mean, a lot of the mentors that I have I met like outside of a student club or something like that, I met them in other ways. But I wish I had taken like one of those opportunities for a structured mentor mentee program and like really made it a really purposeful decision from the get go to find. Like I have amazing mentors, but they definitely found me, like I wish I had been more deliberate about seeking that out because I think a lot of students don’t and then without even realizing it they’ve potentially robbed themselves of what an amazing opportunity those relationships could be. So I wish I had known that that would have been so important early on, and then I guess that’s it. Then of course, there’s all the ones that you think about standard that definitely the majority of vet schools have, but students, for some reason, it’s just hard to get them to go and do it. Which is like, the career planning center, like we have CLAW at UC Davis, which is like the career leadership and wellness office, and they do amazing work there. It’s not only centered around helping you like get a resume together and holding talks and all that, but you can get like counseling and things, opportunities through them. That is definitely something that I wish, like mental health especially, I wish I had taken much more seriously, as seriously as I do now, but that early on in my career. I’d say those are the big ones.
Jordan Benshea: Well, and it’s hard because you’re, I mean, we all have only 24 hours in the day, and we really, at the end of the day, it’s how we prioritize all of it. So it’s tricky because prioritizing SAVMA and VBMA are two huge priorities, and then on top of it, the other things also. So in hindsight, it’s always easy, but I think it’s good to just think about those things because I similarly agree that I feel like I took a lot of advantage of things when I was younger, but I still wish I had done more. So hindsight, I’m like, man, I should have done more in this and more on that.
Advice for Aspiring Veterinarians
Jordan Benshea: But we have this scholarship that we’re now in our second year of, and one of the things we heard a lot from students is they really were curious, like, what’s one piece of advice you would give us as we start veterinary school. So I’d be curious for you, like what’s one piece of advice you would give a pre vet who’s, you know, we’ve got the VIN cast, they’re about to close here in September, and a lot of pre vets that are applying, and then also a lot of pre vets that are right now in they’re either second or third week of starting or about to start in the next couple of weeks. What’s some advice you would give those students in hindsight?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, for sure. I know what it is like immediately, and it would be something I hear a lot. I guess, like I know you’re going to go, and you’re going to be in lectures and labs, and you’re going to be accumulating like all of this book knowledge, and that is, I can’t stress how important that is. So like definitely work hard in your classes, like you want to have a good understanding, but offer two pieces of like perspective. One is, I would say for me and a lot of my friends who are now out practicing veterinarians, I think we all agree that vet school really is a basis for what you are going to learn in your first 5 years, 6 years, 10 years, whatever, out in practice and it’s a double edged sword because on the one hand, I’m sorry to shatter the news, but when you graduate from vet school, they hand you your degree, you’re not going to be like, oh, I know everything, I know how to handle everything. There is still so much learning, and like I said, so much of who I am, the vast majority of who I am as a clinician has been on the basis of my vet school knowledge, but built after that. So what I, and the reason I say that is because what I don’t want you to do is get so bogged down with chasing the 4.0 that you do not give any time to extracurriculars, mentorship opportunities, things like that because Those things are going to, I would say, are just as important in getting out of vet school than the baseline knowledge that you’re going to get and build upon when you leave. So, please be a student, but also be a person and explore things outside of the classroom. Then the second one is, I think in vet school, I don’t know if all vet schools are doing this, they’re not UC Davis, they definitely, they do. But they will teach you some communication and there’s like a doctoring course, again shout out Jim Clark, but those are, which is centered around not so much the medicine, but like being a veterinarian. So talking about medical mistakes, and how do you bring up the euthanasia discussion, and all these things that you’re going to do, if not on a day to day basis, like most of your days. I feel like a lot of the students see that as like a soft skill, and so it’s kind of like something that they go to the class, they’re trying to get through it. But I cannot stress to you how important really it is to like get good at those things because to be honest a lot of the stuff you’re learning about, like neurologic pathways and all these things like that, and you definitely have that somewhere, but I can’t tell you how many times I’ve been like, oh, there’s something there, I don’t remember, let me VIN it real quick, or let me look up another resource, let me grab this textbook. So you can always call that information back, but once you leave school no one is going to teach you how to be a human, like how do you move forward and lead with empathy? How do you connect with all types of different clients who have differing beliefs from you as far as like where their pet is, their importance in the family unit? All of these things that you need to navigate every day, those things are just as important as any other exam class you’re going to take. So don’t just treat them like, oh, it’s a soft skill, I just need to get through it. Take those skills seriously, and they are going to help you immensely once you leave, if you cultivate those.
Jordan Benshea: That’s really a good point. I think your idea of that it’s not just being a good veterinary student, but how to be a good veterinarian. Being a good veterinarian has all these different aspects because it’s not just how you can practice the medicine, but it’s also how the interpersonal skills and dealing with challenges with the clients, but then also within other staff members and other colleagues. That in and of itself is a whole skill that if you’re able to understand that and get some practice with that and some mentorship with that can be so beneficial.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, definitely, and I get being younger and why that mentality really like ekes into your mind because, and I think that schools are getting or starting to see this and getting better and better about how they do their admittance processes now. But you really, when you apply to vet school early on what you think is that, oh, what makes a good vet student makes a good veterinarian. In an ideal world, you’d think those things would be, like, same, that those skills would translate, but it doesn’t always. I think it’s great that you’re getting like incredible grades, or a 4.0, you cured cancer when you were 10, like all those things that you need to do to be competitive for med school. But you’re going to find really quickly that once you step out of the purview of like an academic institution there’s no more barrier between you and like the populace, the outside world. There’s a whole separate skill set that, at least right now, I think it’s really undervalued that you’re like, man, I really should have taken the time, and it is much easier to learn it early on, especially in vet school when mistakes don’t cost you very much than it is when you’re in practice. When you’re trying to maintain a sense of professionalism and give off the sense that you can trust me with your family member, like I know what I’m doing, where a tough interaction can be more costly for sure.
Jordan Benshea: Yeah. Dr. Paul Pion says it all the time, that mostly the veterinary schools look for good veterinary students, and it’s really, like we talk about the scholarship, like we’re really good at looking for good veterinarians. The reality is that the only way that we learn in life is through mistakes. We don’t learn when we get things right, we learn when we get things wrong. Throughout our life, we’re going to be getting things wrong, and as long as we’re learning from them and being willing to show up with compassion and empathy and looking to improve as humans, then we’re doing it right. But I think that those are very good aspects and the soft skills being extremely important and critical. Okay, so you go to UC Davis, you have what sounds to be a very engaging experience, you’ve attended a school where ideally it’s going to cost you the least to attend, so yay. At your understanding, there’s no Harvard effect. So what do you do when you graduate veterinary school, you’re done with UC Davis and what’s the next step for you?
Choosing a Career Path in Veterinary Medicine
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: So while I was in school, I was definitely trying to figure out what my path would be. I had some great conversations with, again, some awesome mentors, and ultimately decided that ER was really, like when I built what I wanted my life to look like, emergency medicine definitely helped facilitate that the best, which is on a side note, how I think more people should consider their career. I think you kind of get lost a little bit, especially students in like expectations like, oh man, I really need to specialize, what do I need to specialize in? Or my family really wants, my family, they’re all this type of practitioner, so I should too. But I would encourage you instead of doing that to go, what do I want my outside life to look like? Then what career path facilitates that best? Like at the end of the day, it is a career, it’s a job, and that career should facilitate other aspects of you and I’m surprised. I’m sorry, vet students, but you’re going to have to figure out other aspects of you when you leave vet school because there has to be something else. But yeah, so I wanted to do ER.
Jordan Benshea: Well and what was it about ER for you that when you said worked for what you want in your life, what was it?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, that’s a great question. I mean, I guess a couple of things, I would say the big thing is I really wanted as much of a family life as I could. I always felt like working 5 days a week, like whether it’s 8 hours or 12 hours, like I’m still exhausted. You know what I mean? You’re not doing much for the rest of the day. So in ER, where you’re more likely to get a job where you’re congesting like fewer working days, but the days you work is longer, that sounded great to me because I was like, fine, like I’d rather work 3 to 4, 12 to 15 hour shifts and then have the rest of the week off. That sounds great. So the schedule did and kind of by extension, I really want, I met my wife while I was in vet school, she was at their human medical school for UC Davis. She’s great, I could rant about her all day, but I’m not going to do that. So I really want to say,
Jordan Benshea: Just a little shout out
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, just a little shout out, Molly, love you, super proud of you. But yeah, so I really wanted to, like as marriage and all that started to become part of the equation I was like, I really want to be present. I don’t want to be like an absentee spouse, I don’t want to be, like I want to have kids. I’m like really like, I love the idea of being a father one day and I want to be really present for my kids, and so all of those things that, as I tried to say what gets me as much of that as possible.
Finding My Place in ER Medicine
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: ER just gave me that or was giving me those opportunities, so that’s what I ultimately went with and I love the medicine. Also, I’ll be honest the kind of people who work ER, I fit in really well with those kinds of people. It’s like, everyone’s insane multitaskers, and talk really fast, and are okay with the building burning down, and we’ll figure it out, and that’s just very much my vibe. So I just fit in really well.
Jordan Benshea: Okay. So you thought ER and out of UC Davis, you’re like ER.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, definitely. So I want to do ER, but I definitely felt like, again, talking about vet school building being a basis for knowledge, I walked out and I was like, okay there is no way I could handle like a GDV, something straight out of vet school. There’s no way if someone came in with their like congestive heart failure chihuahua that I’d be like, oh, I got this 100%, so I wanted more training.
Internship Experience and Mentorship
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: So I did a year long, like small animal rotating internship at a specialty hospital near Sacramento. That also, you don’t hear this a lot, I feel like, with internships, but I loved that too. That was great. It was work, it’s a very high volume hospital, but again the people I met there, the friends I made, more mentorship, it was just incredible. It’s not that it wasn’t difficult, it just makes such a big difference when the people you’re shoulder to shoulder with are like on the same page, and you feel valued and all of that. So that was amazing, and then did that for a year. Then right when I finished my internship, Molly, my wife, she applied in the match for her human surgery residency. She’s going to be a surgeon, or she is a surgeon. She is a surgeon. Sorry, babe, you’re a surgeon. So It just worked out really well.
Moving to Colorado and Settling In
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: So she moved up here to Colorado where we are now. I think it was like two months before me and then I finished up internship and then came up here after her and that’s where we’ve been since. It’s been two full years now. I think we’re working on our third year here in Colorado.
Jordan Benshea: Okay, so you’re two years out into Colorado or working on your third. You are now 3 years out, what year did you graduate?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: 2021. Yeah. So I’m 3 years out.
Jordan Benshea: 2021. So you’re 3 years out.
Thriving in ER: Challenges and Rewards
Jordan Benshea: Is ER still fitting you very well?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah. I love it. Yeah. It’s great. I think, I mean, again, I think I very much was deliberate in how I came to the conclusion I wanted to be an ER clinician. I feel like I had good reasons of why it fit for me, and I know it’s no secret that the longevity of people’s career phases in ER is not very long. Like you do it for 5 years or something like that, and then a lot of people will jump ship to something else. I don’t blame them, like it’s tough. It’s challenging for sure. But I will say again, like essentially 3 years in, including my internship year, I really like it. I love the interactions I have with people. I love my coworkers, and maybe something crazy will happen in the next couple of years, but to be honest, I see myself going longer than 5, like I’ve got gas left for ER. I think it’s a good sign, if I’m not feeling like it’s work, but if I’m not feeling like mentally, emotionally, physically destroyed 3 years, yeah, I’ve got more for this, then that’s a good sign to me.
Jordan Benshea: It is, and our Vets4Vets confidential support group found that if veterinary colleagues were thriving in their first 5 years out of veterinary school, they tend to thrive throughout their career and vice versa. If they’re struggling in the first, so you’re over 50% of the way there. But along those lines, to your point, emergency can be very critical and very high performing, do you find it easy? Or how do you keep a balance in the midst of that? Or is that something that you find that you’re able to do or that you’re learning to do? Or what is your feedback on that?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, that’s a great question.
Balancing Work and Personal Growth
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Honestly, I think what really helps me wake up every day and not like dread going to work, I mean, I have to give it to the people I work with, they’re incredible. But I will also say as in general, not just in my career, but in life period, I don’t tend to take myself too seriously. I always like every day, the goal is to be better. So I’m always asking myself at the end of my shifts, what good did I do today? Did I really help anybody? Then, once I kind of give myself those props, I say, okay, no, but honestly, like, where can we have done better? That’s just not in the medicine sense, but could I have handled a situation with one of the support staff a little bit better, or could I have communicated this to a client in a better way? And I think what that allows me to do is every single day, even in a small way, it is easier than the one previously. So, now doing that for essentially 3 years, like doing those self assessments just like a couple minutes every day, has really helped me like stay on track as I try to grow as a not only medically as a clinician, but as a doctor, like as a full person. I just think that helps a ton and I guess the other thing too is I have a lot of camaraderie with the people that I work with because they know that whether you’re a doctor or a nurse or assistant or a receptionist, whatever the case may be, is that I, in my view, I am not more important than anybody else. So I think when I make it very clear that in my view we have different jobs, but as far as necessity we are all lateral, like, I value you guys so much, and I think that really helps foster great relationships with the people you work with. So I’ve had some really awesome very vulnerable conversations with people I work with, and it just feels really good to be trusted in that way. Or when, a case comes in and I want to do something a little bit different for whatever reason, even if, say this nurse is not familiar with this dose of medication or handling it this way or using this sedative protocol, whatever the case may be, there is like you know what, I trust Sean, he knows what he’s doing, like, of course we’re going to double check, we’ll fact check the math, like all that business, but I know he has a reason for this, and so I’m going to trust him on this. That work environment just, I think, makes all the difference, to be honest.
Jordan Benshea: Camaraderie is vitally important in all aspects in our life, and to be able to have that in a work aspect is so important. That’s why I started this podcast and stories, is the ability to be vulnerable and share. That’s how we connect as humans. If we’re not willing to be vulnerable and to share and to show vulnerability, then how are we going to connect? Because nobody wants to hang out with somebody that thinks they’re always right. Nobody’s going to really trust somebody that feels like they’re always right because none of us are always right. If we’re able to work on being a better human every day that’s really a lot of what it’s about. I like your approach there and how you’re approaching that. I think that’s really the best thing that you could do for a balanced mindset is to begin with, I don’t totally have it all figured out. If you’re like, oh yeah, I’m the most balanced person, I’m totals, and all the time I know exactly everything that’s going on, I’m always perfect, nobody would trust you because they think like, that’s not…
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, that’s not real, and it’s wild too because in a sense it’s a little counterintuitive, but really I’ve learned that by being vulnerable and admitting to my team and I’m like, I don’t know like I have to do some research, like we’ll figure this out, but honestly like hands up I don’t know what to do here. Like you would think the first thought, the forebrain thought, is, oh they won’t trust me because they know I’m capable of not knowing what to do. But in honesty, what I found is that they trust me more because I can admit when I’m either out of my depth or don’t know what’s going on. So it’s just like, it’s nice. Honestly, the people I work with, it’s good to have friends at work, like I’d hang out with them outside of work. I guess the other thing too is because I had worked as an assistant for so long, when I’m asking them to do something there is no, oh, Gadson wouldn’t do this, he’s just making me do it. I’ve done it, I know what I’m, I have a very good sense, like, when I’m asking you to sedate the aggressive dog and all that stuff, I know that’s challenging because I’ve done it. So, I think that also gets you a certain amount of like social capital in that way.
Jordan Benshea: Yeah, absolutely, because you understand that, and there’s compassion for what they’re going through.
Addressing Client Perceptions and Industry Challenges
Jordan Benshea: What do you see are a few of the important topics based on your experience in the veterinary profession as a recent graduate?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, man, I guess I think of the 3 that really come to mind that you deal with essentially every day, at least for me, is how clients specifically perceive veterinarians and the veterinary industry. I think there’s a lot of, I almost, I tell people, it’s almost like when you go to buy a car and you’re going to buy a car and you’re like, okay, I need to buy this car, but I’m already kind of like nervous that they’re going to try to get one over on me. There’s a suspension of, there’s like a little bit of a wall there and whether or not that is true, like in any sense, like you come in with that notion, and I think some of our clients come in that way too. So like bridging that gap and making them feel like, you know what you came to me, and I am your partner in this, as a veterinarian I am your advisor. I cannot tell you what to do, I can only say based on my training, and what I know, like, my experience I think this would be the best way to try to get a maximal outcome for your pet. But ultimately other things come into play, like belief systems and financial resources and all these other things, I have to balance all that. So how we are seen and kind of keying into that early on in the interaction definitely comes into play like quite a bit. So I do my best to listen to, like I’ll read the news when it pertains to vet med or listen to podcasts and things like that because I really want to know what information and what narrative are people getting about my job and my industry. So I think that’s important too.
Jordan Benshea: Yeah, that’s hard because, as humans, we never see the full cost of our bill because of insurance. With vet med, there is so much from a cost perspective, it seems like that’s a big barrier, and so hard for colleagues to get over and understand. Then the insurance, the pet insurance industry, and there’s a lot there. Okay, so that’s one perception of, veterinarians and veterinary medicine.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: That’s one. I would say even though I’ve talked so much about how much I love this job and I have like tons of gas left for it, I would say from kind of an outsider looking in, burnout and high staff turnover is something that a lot of clinics like all over the world deal with all the time. I think honestly, as I have, as my role in vet med has changed over the last like 17, 18 years, whatever it’s been, like my perception of that and why that happens has definitely shifted, I think in a better way. It’s not people who are just like, I need more money and you’re not paying me enough and I’m just going to let go and like bounce, like I need. I mean, it’s really people saying hey, at least in my experience, it’s like, hey, I like really like what I do, like it’s exhausting, but I need more, I need to feel more valued, or I need more mental health support, or I need more money to be able to afford to live, as there, as like. It’s no surprise, things are crazy expensive, and it’s getting harder and harder to keep the lights on anywhere, so it is not, it really, I think burnout really is the best word for it, because it’s not that the majority of people want to jump jobs all the time and dah, dah, dah. At some level, everyone wants stability. It’s nice to be able to go in and do the thing and feel comfortable where you are. But yeah, you’re going to see that if you’re not experiencing it yourself, I think everyone does at some point in their career, like myself included, I’m sure at some point I will feel that way. But you’re going to see it in your friends and your colleagues. So that is something that is, I think, nearly essentially unavoidable for you to experience at some stage and knowing how to handle that yourself and do your best to advocate and support for other people who are experiencing it, I think is really important, like for sure.
Diversity and Inclusion in Veterinary Medicine
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Then I think the last one, I guess for, especially for me personally, I would have to say diversity like DEI: diversity, equity and inclusion in vet Med for sure. I mean, I didn’t meet, it’s not so wild, but it’s super true. I didn’t meet another black veterinarian until I was in vet school. At that point like I said, I had been you know cleaning kennels since I was 14 and I started vet school when I was 27, so you’re talking like 13 years of moving and working in multiple places and and not like knowing another African American veterinarian for over a decade in the industry. That really put into perspective, like, man I really. It kind of makes it feel a little heavy too because when you’re in vet school doing it, you feel a sense of responsibility to really represent and be the example that shows like, no man, we should be here, and to go around and tell the black students, like you should be here. You have something to, like a different perspective and life experiences that are super valuable. Like my experiences and how that might differ from some of my colleagues has helped me really navigate some situations like in my career. I think it might be harder if I came from a different background. So seeing that lack of a group you’re represented in the industry you love can be tough, but at the same time, it also really fills my cup to help be that for people who are coming up behind me. If it was up to me, I would go around and reach out to like, if you’re a vet student period and are interested in vet med and all that stuff, I would love to talk to you and really fill you in on what it’s like and all that. Especially if you’re an African American or if you’re black in this country and you’re like, “oh, I want to do this, but there’s not a lot of black people who do it, maybe that means I shouldn’t do it”. Or even sometimes like within my own culture you’ll hear black people don’t do that, like black people do whatever, like we are cable, whatever we want, like we could definitely do it. I just think It is something that every day you go to work, it is like very apparent. It is something that I’m actively trying to normalize, is if you’re interested in this and you have the passion and we talk about all the struggles of being a veterinarian, as far as the burnout and the mental health load and the debt and all those things, and you still want to do it, I think you should regardless of your background, 100%. So, that is definitely something that, a topic that comes into play in my career all the time.
Jordan Benshea: Well, and I think that you’ve just had an open call here. So if anybody’s interested and they want to talk to Sean, reach out and we’ll get you in touch with Sean. Or if you know somebody like, absolutely. I think that it can be anytime that we’re doing something new or there’s not a path sort of set out ahead of us, we just don’t know. Just knowing that somebody with similarities to you have walked that path, even if it’s not the exact same path that you’ll walk, just that they’ve walked that path, it can be so helpful and so soothing and just give you encouragement. So if you know somebody that wants to be a veterinarian or has similar paths, Sean’s here. He’s putting himself out there.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, please. I would love to. You know what’s funny?
Jordan Benshea: We challenge you to reach out.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, do it. Send an email. But you know what’s funny too? I have this story where you don’t even realize like how important that sense of community is until, I remember once I was at an externship in my 4th year, and I was going around like testing out places where I might want to do an internship and I walk in for my shift and one of the veterinarians there was a black man and we looked at each other. We make eye contact and we’re like, hey, dude, what’s up? All this stuff, and all the nurse like, oh, do you know him? They’re like, never met him in my life. Like, it’s so funny. It just, it means a lot. So yeah, if you like, are you just in this industry, want to talk to somebody who like definitely knows what it’s like to try to carve out that path themselves rather than having something more laid out, reach out to me. I would absolutely love to talk to you for sure.
Jordan Benshea: I love it. That’s it. That’s the call. It’s an open call right here. We’ve talked about a lot of resources that are available, we’ve talked about the ones that you think that pre or rather new grad should really focus on. Is there anything else you want to leave the audience with or other sort of tidbits or piece of advice or information that you think would be good to share?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, I definitely think, man, I guess there’s, I’m going to try to keep it short because I know I’ve been rambling like this whole time, but I’m going to go…
Jordan Benshea: No, it’s good.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, I know, I’m trying my best here.
Jordan Benshea: We’ve covered a lot of great stuff. I don’t think we’ve been rambling.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Good. Okay. So I’m going to go with two.
Encouraging Future Veterinarians
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: I would say, I would ask something I heard a bunch when I was a pre vet student trying to make this happen because I had veterinarians like up and down be like don’t do this, like this is a hard thing, like I’m going to save you before you even do this, like don’t do it. I think I know like a lot of veterinarians have for sure had some experience with where their telling people in this industry, don’t do it. I am going to put out a call, another call, that as a profession we need to like collectively stop doing that. Now, here’s what I would say because that is not to say that the reasons you’re giving for maybe deterring someone, are totally off base. Like it is a very demanding job, so many veterinarians, nurse, like people are underpaid at all levels in this industry. There’s a lot of personal toll, professional toll, it’s hard to maintain all those things. But here’s what I would say, is one, I very much have the perspective that if you’re deliberate about tackling those issues up front and putting systems in place that really mitigate those stressors, you can have a really good fulfilling career in this industry, 100%. The other thing too is I would say is what we don’t need, we don’t need to tell people not to become veterinarians. What we need to do is be honest with them about what veterinary medicine is. Like a lot of times as a kid, you romanticize it, and so it kind of hits you like a ton of bricks when all of a sudden you’re here and you’re hearing about all these struggles and things like that. So here’s what I would do, and what I would encourage other people to do, is if someone comes to you and says, “I really want to be a veterinarian, will you like help me with this? Will you mentor me?”, Instead of saying don’t do it, just be honest with them. Like, naked truth. Tell them about the debt, tell them about the stress, tell them how tough vet school is to get into all of those things. Just be honest, and, if they look at you and go, “okay, mask off I appreciate you sharing that with me, but I still want to do it”, that is who we need in this industry. We don’t need people who got into it thinking it was something different, realized it’s not what they thought it was, but like the inertia just kept them moving and they don’t feel like they’re in too deep to stop and they ended up in a job they don’t want. We need people who know what’s going on and say ” I will tackle that, like, that sounds tough, I’m going to work hard to mitigate those things, but I still love this profession enough that I want to join it”, that’s really who we need. So I think we definitely think we need to change the way we talk to young people about whether or not they should join this industry for sure. Then the other one I’ll say is, I think, my personal opinion is I think the phrase, “do what you love and you’ll never work a day in your life”, is the biggest lie that we tell people. I don’t know who came up with this or like why It’s almost like, I feel the same way when people say “love is never having to say you’re sorry”. It’s the biggest lie ever because here’s the truth. I love this field, I know a lot of people who love what they do, but it’s tiring, no matter what. That’s just the truth. You’re going to go home, you’re going to be exhausted. Some days are definitely easier than others. Every single one isn’t a grind, or at least it shouldn’t be. But I love what I do, and I come home beat some days, but I’ve had times in my life where I have been, like a lot more energy. Maybe I wasn’t working as hard, and I didn’t really feel fulfilled. I just felt like I was sucking up oxygen and I’ve had times in my life where like now where I am routinely like exhausted, but I feel fulfilled. Like I have a strong sense of purpose and I really feel like I do help make things in the world better for the people who come and see me. I feel like I really help my patients and by extension help my clients, and I would choose exhausted and fulfilled over tons of energy and a lack of purpose every day of the week, 100%. I just don’t want this, the narrative to be, oh, if I’m tired, that must mean I shouldn’t be here. That’s not necessarily the case. I do think you should take a self inventory. I have a calendar event on my phone, like no joke, every 6 months, and it’s an appointment with myself where I sit down and I have a sheet of questions ask myself and answer. Do I feel fulfilled? Is the job I’m doing now facilitating me reaching towards larger aspirations that I have? Do I hate going to work every day? Am I compensated well enough? And really just check in because vet med is super easy, it’s just way too easy to get your degree, get out, work, work, work, work, work, put your head down and work for 30 years, come up for air when you retire, and then be like, actually, I didn’t do anything I wanted to do.
Jordan Benshea: Where did my life go?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, where did my life go? So just stay deliberate in assessing where you are in life, and like you drive the train, like you drive the ship. Just make sure that you got the hands on the wheel the whole time, I guess is what I would say.
Jordan Benshea: Yeah, I think that’s great advice. They call it a job for a reason. They’re not paying you to do nothing. But there’s a scale within that. I love, love, love my job, and I feel so honored to be able to do it, and it doesn’t mean there’s not tough days, but having that check in with yourself where is this really what I want to be doing? Is this what feeds me? And that’s going to ebb and flow because it’s life. It all ebb and flows, but I think that’s really good advice.
Personal Hobbies and Final Thoughts
Jordan Benshea: Okay, my last question is that I really like asking people because I feel like the answers are really all over is, do you have a secret talent or something that you enjoy doing that others might not know?
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Ooh, that’s a great question. I actually, yeah. So I don’t know, a lot of people may not know but I have a black belt in martial arts. I did Kaji Kembo and we traveled and did tournaments and all that.
Jordan Benshea: Awesome.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, that was awesome. That was just, talking about emotionally and mentally vet med being tough, that’s physically one of the most challenging things, like ever. But it was a blast, and then more recently I started working on my pilot’s license, like my private pilot’s license, just so like fly a little like single propeller plane and stuff. That is something that a friend of mine does and like got me into and man, I am enjoying it like way more than I thought I would and honestly I like it because you need things other than vet med. It’s way too easy to be like, oh, I’m a veterinarian, but what else am I? So, it’s fun. Essentially, the way I pick hobbies is, I go, okay, when I was a kid, if 6, 7 year old Sean, when he was all griped about, and went onto “Ask Jeeves” and all that, if he met adult me, would he think I’m cool? Like, it’s kind of how I think about it.
Jordan Benshea: I love that!
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, like would kid Sean…
Jordan Benshea: That’s a fantastic game.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, I think it’s fun. It’s cool to be like, man, 7 year old me would lose their mind if they’re like, oh, we’re like a vet and we got a black belt and we fly planes. Man, we sound so cool. So that’s like how I like to pick my hobbies.
Jordan Benshea: I think that’s a great approach because how often do we hear about people that are comparing themselves to others, but comparing yourself to yourself when you’re younger, and if you’re younger self would think that you’re cool, I totally get that. That’s awesome. Well, Sean, thank you so much for taking the time today to share your story, and I think this has been a great conversation.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah, I appreciate you having me on. I love the podcast and I really appreciate you giving a platform for like people to come and tell their stories in this way. This has been a blast, so thanks so much. This has been awesome.
Jordan Benshea: Awesome, and I’m super excited about you being on the VIN Foundation board. I’m excited to dig deep with you. So, thank you, thank you, thank you for your time.
Sean Gadson, DVM, MS: Yeah. Thank you so much.
Outro
Jordan Benshea: Thank you for joining us for this episode of The Veterinary Pulse. Please check the episode notes for additional information referenced in the podcast. If you enjoyed this podcast, please follow, subscribe, and share a review. We welcome feedback and hope you will tune in again. You can find out more about the VIN Foundation through our website, vinfoundation.org, and our social media channels. Thank you for being here. Be well.
